Say, What Would A Real Climate Plan Look Like Or Something

I’m sure you’ve heard of the term “tell” before. It’s often used when playing poker, and one definition is “an unconscious action that is thought to betray an attempted deception.” There’s a big tell in this Mother Jones screed by Excitable Kevin Drum

What Should a Climate Change “Plan” Look Like?

David Roberts has a point here:

Anyone with a 3-digit IQ can do a bit of googling and come up with a set of policies to reduce carbon emissions. But a plan—now that’s a different thing. A plan has to be an actual course of action with both a goal and a chance of success. We should be able to line up your plan with all the others and extract two numbers about each one: (1) emission levels in 2050 if the plan works, and (b) consensus probability that the plan will work.

My plan would include measures that force anyone how has shown belief in anthropogenic climate change, ie, they think it is at at least 55% caused by Mankind (most think it is almost all caused by Mankind) to give up their own use of fossil fuels, except for taking public transportation. No more cars, no more minivans, no more trucks, no more airplane flights. They wouldn’t be allowed to live in a home of more than 500 square feet. They would have to be sterilized so that they do not bring any more “world killing” kids into the world. They wouldn’t be allowed to eat meat more than once a week. Their paychecks would have large garnishments to cover their carbon taxes. That’s good for a start.

Kevin has other ideas. He wants us to “think international”, “focus on getting the biggest bang for the buck”, and “lots of shared R&D”. That last one I agree with, even though I think mankind is causing less than 25% of the minor temperature increase during the Modern Warm Period, as it would lead to better and lower priced clean energy, which is never a bad thing, and could help with many other things.

Regardless, it was his other one that is the “tell”

Forget the free market. There’s no profit in addressing climate change. In fact, the profit is almost entirely on the other side. This means that any plausible plan has to include lots of government subsidies: subsidies for solar, subsidies for wind, subsidies for electric cars, subsidies for reforestation, etc. Basically, you should accept that virtually every policy you support will happen only to the extent that the government subsidizes it.

In other words, what you really have here is a takeover of the economy by the government. And how to pay for it? A massive carbon tax, though Kevin admits it wouldn’t work. And

There are plenty of other possibilities. The main thing is to be rigidly realistic at all times. If you ask too much of people, they won’t support your ideas no matter how great they are. And even if they do, they aren’t likely to respond appropriately to the scale of the problem on their own. I haven’t, after all. Neither have you. But that’s OK: climate change won’t be affected much by personal action anyway. It’s too big. Like a war, it requires action on a governmental scale. Unlike a war, however, it has no human enemy to spur citizens to accept the sacrifice it takes to win. It’s up to us to come up with an alternative.

So, it’s all about Government. There’s an old saying which Warmists should always keep in mind: Be careful what you wish for. You might actually get it.

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35 Responses to “Say, What Would A Real Climate Plan Look Like Or Something”

  1. Elwood P. Dowd says:

    Teach: give up their own use of fossil fuels, except for taking public transportation. No more cars, no more minivans, no more trucks, no more airplane flights. They wouldn’t be allowed to live in a home of more than 500 square feet. They would have to be sterilized so that they do not bring any more “world killing” kids into the world. They wouldn’t be allowed to eat meat more than once a week. Their paychecks would have large garnishments to cover their carbon taxes.

    Wow. Pure authoritarianism. And from “freedom”-loving Con Men, too.

    What would a real Con plan look like?

    I want Con Men to pay for The Wall – large garnishments should do it. Should be easy.

    I want Con Men to give up their gov’t subsidies, using roads, breathing clean air, drinking clean water, collecting unemployment -Social Security -Medicare -Medicaid, using life saving medicines supported by gov’t research/trials, eschew police and fire protection, pay back all the public education they received… and on and on. Large garnishments should do it.

    No disaster relief, of course.

    • Liljeffyatemypuppy says:

      What would a real Con plan look like?

      https://i.imgflip.com/21n3bd.jpg

      https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

    • Jl says:

      Another analogy from J that……doesn’t work. Shocking. Simply put, Republicans aren’t lobbying for the removal of roads, clean air, unemployment, S.S., Medicare, Medicaid, ect. like libs are for fossil fuels. Other than that…

      • Elwood P. Dowd says:

        Silly boy. Republicans just want to not pay for them! Dems want to reduce the use of fossil-fuels just as GOPhers want reduce clean air, clean water, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. Other than that…

        Anyway, pricing fossil fuels to reflect their true costs (including negative externalities) doesn’t “get rid” of fossil fuels. If you prefer fossil fuels, you can pay for them.

        We were under the impression that the GOP still favored limited government and reduced spending.

    • Hoss says:

      So, don’t use the services you’ve been paying for your whole life, versus pay through the nose for leftist’s authoritarian, complete batshit crazy, wet-dream. The Green Deal reads like the product of a second-grader, at best, but that’s not surprising.

      But, if you want to stop taxing us Republicans now, we can amortize out the services we’ve already paid for and be done with you, but I don’t think you’re going to like taking Republicans off the books and relying on your taker-base to pick up the slack (your free-loader base is going to like it even less). You guys will be starving and wondering why power isn’t coming to your computer and lightbulb thingies within a month. And are you really so stupid that you wanna play the “if you want it, you pay for it” game? Awesome. Done.

  2. Blick says:

    There are Wars of Policy and Wars of Passion. Democracies are not very good at Wars of Policy, the people cannot get their hearts into it and soon grow weary and protest. Dictatorships fight wars of policy as they are wars at the whim of the governing elite. It takes a positive motive for Wars of Passion. Fear does not win wars. Forcing people to fight is not a winning strategy.

    So far the Warmists have not put forth a convincing argument for massive social action and personal engagement. A possible, maybe, future fear will not replace the day to day fear of making a living. Psychology and Sociology will tell you that.

    • Kye says:

      Well, yeah Blick. That and the fact it’s BS.

      Maybey if they didn’t start out lying about Alar, DDT, acid rain, the new ice age, toxic waste, the warming age, making man responsible for everything, and all kind of phony predictions from morons like Erlich and Krugman. Plus, it dosen’t help when you call people who aren’t buying your snake oil names like “deniers” or “on the wrong side of history”, uneducated, rednecks ignorant etc.

      It would also prove their point if they were for the most powerful and safest form of energy creation known to man: nuclear power. If you’re not willing to use the best non fossil fuel you are lying about something.

      • Blick says:

        I agree with you Kye. And that reinforces my point that fear and negativity will not get the warmists where they want to go. So they have to propose government force and dictatorial force to implement their policies. They cannot persuade (intellectually or morally) so they must force compliance / obedience to their policies. That is how bankrupt their science, politics and policies are.

  3. StillAlive says:

    I want Con Men to pay for The Wall – large garnishments should do it. Should be easy.

    this is pure genius. I bet if you put on the federal income tax returns a box in which we could donate three dollars of our money to fund a wall or refuse like we do for presidential elections.

    How much do you think would be taken in. My guess is the 25-30 billion would be covered this year and the wall would be built. On top of that they could create a much larger force of judges, beds and build large condos to house the illegals before they are humanely returned.

    I bet with just a three dollar donation from our tax refunds by checking a box we could solve the border wall in one year, without a single Democrats having to pay a single CENT.

    Any takers?

    • Elwood P. Dowd says:

      Works for me, but are you sure $3 is enough?

      127,000,000 households x 35% support x $3 = $0.13 billion. It’s a start. At $30 each you get $1.3 billion. $300 each gives $13 billion or about half The Wall.

      $500 will get you there! Do you think Cons will pony up %500/household to build The Wall?

      Why are you and tRump attempting to force other people to pay for this Wall?

      We’ll start believing it’s a national emergency when those claiming it’s a national emergency start acting like it’s a national emergency. Trump even admitted it’s not an emergency.

      • Mangoldielocks says:

        Yes I think they would pony up 10-20 dollars per income tax. Easily.

        WHY ARE YOU AND THE COMMIES TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PAY FOR YOUR GLOBAL WARMING SCAM?

        Yours is a perceived threat that might or might not happen in 50-100 years.

        Illegal immigrants are a threat today. They bring nothing for this country… Except their very first act of being on American Soil is breaking the law.

        Do not conflate LEGAL with ILLEGAL.

        Why do you want illegals to flood the US.

        Would you open your arms and let them pour in if they voted for REPUBLICANS or were predisposed to favor and march for Republican causes. Of course your party would still be the party of BUILD THE WALL.. THROW THEM OUT… HEAVILY PENALIZE EMPLOYERS WHO HIRE AN ILLEGAL.

        Oh wait that was who your party was just three years ago until TRUMP took your agenda and ran with it and then NO MATTER WHAT TRUMP DOES…RESIST.

        Yeah cons would voluntarily pay. I’m even willing to try but you know the government would just take the money and use it for something else.

        The Big question always remains WHY doesn’t the left pay for their global warming agenda. Its because they want the government to print MONEY to pay for it. They are not willing to part with one gawd dayum dime of their own money and never have because they know…AGW is a SCAM….ILLEGALS SNEAKING INTO THIS COUNTRY AND TAKING JOBS IS NOT!!!!!!

  4. Dana says:

    Our esteemed host wrote:

    My plan would include measures that force anyone how has shown belief in anthropogenic climate change, ie, they think it is at at least 55% caused by Mankind (most think it is almost all caused by Mankind) to give up their own use of fossil fuels, except for taking public transportation. No more cars, no more minivans, no more trucks, no more airplane flights.

    Oddly enough, Ford and General Motors are getting out of the sedan business, because they just aren’t selling. They’ll concentrate on trucks, SUVs and ‘crossovers,’ because that’s what the American public are buying.

    But, one would think that, if the public are concerned about global warming climate change, they’d be buying fewer of the larger vehicles, and more traditional cars would be seeing a buying resurgence, not failure.

    We have elections yearly, but people vote, every day, with their economic decisions.

  5. Hoss says:

    I was looking in the Green Deal for how and when we take over China and India, because nothing we do is going to change anything as it is, and it’s even going to be more asinine with those two countries maintaining their current course.

  6. bob says:

    1) there is absolutely nothing man can do to destroy the planet. they may cause local problems but nothing on a global level.
    2) if these half wits were really serious about “climate change, aka, global warming, aka global cooling” they would start with China and India where almost all of the pollution is coming from. but that would be to much like work so they want the U.S. to pay for it. even though the U.S. is one of the cleanest countries on the planet. Funny how the most capitalistic countries are the cleanest.

  7. Kye says:

    Funny how the most capitalistic countries are the cleanest.

    And the richest. And the whitest. And the safest. And the freest. And the happiest. Should I go on? But that’s just the point, isn’t it bob? It’s all because of white privilege, unequal “distribution” of income and oppression of minorities. Yet all those minorities still want in. Go figure. And all the no-nothing elite whites hate America and want to do whatever to destroy it. Hence the Red/Green New/Old Deal. The wave of the left’s future is to revive the horror of the left’s past. Wow! That’s progress.

    • Elwood P. Dowd says:

      Capitalistic countries like Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, England, Finland, France, Germany, Holland, Israel, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Luxembourg, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland… All more “communist” than the proposed changes by Dems for the US.

      Before long, China will pass the US as the world’s largest economy, largely based on their form of “capitalism”. Are they the whitest and cleanest?

  8. Kye says:

    Capitalistic countries like Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, England, Finland, France, Germany, Holland, Israel, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Luxembourg, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland… All more “communist” than the proposed changes by Dems for the US.

    No they’re not. Where do you get your information from? First off, a country can’t be “more communist”. It either is or it isn’t. Or were you never taught the difference? I’ll give you a hint. When they change their name to “The People’s Republic of Belgium” they have become communist.

    Secondly, the “changes” you say being proposed by the Dem-Coms are “fundamental” changes to the way America deals with economic and social problems (issues to you leftists). And they are all communist style proposals. Which makes sense since they are proposed by communists.

    Finally, when OR if China becomes the worlds largest economy you can discuss the reasons it occurred but right now your argument holds zero water since China is NOT the worlds largest economy. But for sh!ts and giggles let’s say that happens. It will be because a despotic communist based government learned that capitalism works 100% better than socialism or communism which is more than we can say for the Democrat-Communist Party in America who appear determined to destroy the greatest nation in history because they hate Orange Man.

    • Liljeffyatemypuppy says:

      …Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, England, Finland, France, Germany, Holland, Israel, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Luxembourg, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland…

      Ya know what else they have in common?

      The United States assists/provides most of their national defenses militarily via various treaties… with little recompense.

      https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

    • Elwood P. Dowd says:

      Got it. Proposing universal health care and gov’t paid college tuition is the same as the Soviet Union under Premier Stalin and China under Chairman Mao.

      10s of thousands of websites/blogs are monitored by the Deep State commies and dealt with accordingly. When we find someone on a blog threatening our plans, we foment lies about them online, then doxx them and let the crazies (Antifa, Skinhead Alliance, police etc).

      When we the Dems take the House, Senate and White House do you expect Trump, McConnell et al to be sent to the new American gulag (FEMA camps in Montana that Chairman Obama constructed)? And do you know how easy it is for the Deep State commies to find out who you are? When we they put Teach in the “chair” do you think he’ll protect your identity (see Marathon Man)? The brilliant and articulate “freedom fighters” like you, Teach, Hannity and Alex Jones will be the first to be “disappeared”. If you’re lucky you’ll go to “re-education” camps (mostly in heavily fortified “land-grant” universities in the Midwest – prisons with professors! – and yes, Walls DO work!), if not lucky…

      You may think the 2nd Amendment is your salvation, but you are unaware of two things – 1) Dems have been buying up weapons (I have at least 20) and B) so has the Deep State. Remember when Deep State Chairman Obama had the IRS, FBI, CIA, DHS, EPA buying up billions of rounds of ammo…? Many of our Central American shock troops are being armed and trained as we speak. Have you heard much about the Oath Keepers lately? The Deep State is quietly taking care of them, too. FOX News, Glenn Beck, Coulter, Judge Napolitano, many Repub Senators and QAnon have all been bought off.

      HRC has been in constant consultation with Putin (all covered up by the old guard CIA and FBI apparatus – who are still running things – McCabe, Brennan… the usual suspects). The Deep State employs both Giuliani and Senator L Graham to go around saying stupid and outrageous things as a distraction.

      Global Warming IS a hoax started in the 80s by Zbigniev Brzeznski and the Trilateral Commission after their 70s Global Cooling Hoax did not gain traction. The largest computer network ever created, Big Climate (HQ at Penn State but auxiliary in Berkeley, Moscow, London, Paris, Beijing, Sydney, Nairobi and Tehran), runs the entire operation – printing fake journal articles, controlling all the temperature stations, satellites, buoys and the giant electric coils in the Arctic, Antarctic and Greenland.

      We The Deep State is conditioning the people to accept controls on fossil fuels – he who controls energy controls the world (according to Vlad) – and The Deep State is doing two things A) colluding with the oil companies to control all the oil and 2) stockpiling trillions of barrels deep the Earth in places like Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, the North Sea and even West Russia Amerika America. We pull it out of places like Saudi Arabia and hide it deep in the ground in places like Venezuela!

      • Liljeffyatemypuppy says:

        Those little voices again, huh, nignorant? https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

      • formwiz says:

        In the immortal words of Vladimir Ilych Ulyanov, the object of Socialism is Communism.

        10s of thousands of websites/blogs are monitored by the Deep State commies and dealt with accordingly. When we find someone on a blog threatening our plans, we foment lies about them online, then doxx them and let the crazies (Antifa, Skinhead Alliance, police etc).

        As Alex Jones, the Hoft Brothers, Nicholas Sandmann, and Laura Loomer can freely attest.

        Idiot Girl should remember many a true word is spoken in jest.

        You may think the 2nd Amendment is your salvation, but you are unaware of two things – 1) Dems have been buying up weapons (I have at least 20) and B) so has the Deep State. Remember when Deep State Chairman Obama had the IRS, FBI, CIA, DHS, EPA buying up billions of rounds of ammo…? Many of our Central American shock troops are being armed and trained as we speak.

        It’s amazing how many Lefties talk like this. They really do believe there’s not only the military ready to slaughter Conservatives the next time the country elects a Democrat, but that the Brown Wave will engulf us (been hearing that one for 50 years).

        Global Warming IS a hoax started in the 80s by Zbigniev Brzeznski and the Trilateral Commission after their 70s Global Cooling Hoax did not gain traction. The largest computer network ever created, Big Climate (HQ at Penn State but auxiliary in Berkeley, Moscow, London, Paris, Beijing, Sydney, Nairobi and Tehran), runs the entire operation – printing fake journal articles, controlling all the temperature stations, satellites, buoys and the giant electric coils in the Arctic, Antarctic and Greenland.

        Again, many a true word…

        Read the Climategate Emails. Like the Venona Diaries.

  9. Elwood P. Dowd says:

    Kye,

    Can you define communist/communism? I keep asking and no one here answers.

    Here’s what Wikipedia says:

    In political and social sciences, communism is the philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state.

    and capitalism:

    Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system, and competitive markets. In a capitalist market economy, decision-making and investment are determined by every owner of wealth, property or production ability in financial and capital markets, whereas prices and the distribution of goods and services are mainly determined by competition in goods and services markets.

    According to you there is no middle ground between the two. There’s no slippery slope to communism? That’s good to know.

    If a country is either communist or not, what policy tips the balance from a capitalist country to a communist country?

    Universal healthcare?

    A carbon tax?

    Restrictions on air and water pollution?

    Taxes?

    A constitution?

    Seizure of the means of production?

    Dissolving the state? (no Congress, no President, no central courts…)

    Do you wish to reconsider your claim that the Democratic Party plans to dissolve the federal government, seize all private business and distribute to “the people”, and eliminate the concept of money? Or do you have something else in mind by “communist”?

    In my estimation, most Dems would be more than happy if the US had social systems similar to other advanced nations, e.g., many European nations. You admit that Sweden, France, Liechtenstein, Belgium, Finland, Israel and Switzerland are not communist states. Do you really think the Dems want a Soviet style communist society?

    Is Russia today a communist country?

    • Liljeffyatemypuppy says:

      Didja make it to the Farrakhan rally last night? https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

    • Blick says:

      Socialism takes a high level of voluntary altruism in order to be true socialism. Each member of a socialist society must voluntarily contribute their maximum and take the minimum to ensure there is enough to go around. To force that upon the members of society is modern communism or
      totalitarianism. Force is needed to overcome the natural survival instincts (self-interest) of individuals. That is why socialism ultimately fails. It runs contrary to nature.

    • Liljeffyatemypuppy says:

      Can you define communist/communism? I keep asking and no one here answers.

      Sorry nignorant maybe this will help…

      https://tinyurl.com/y34ffj9x

      https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

    • Kye says:

      Sweden, France, Lichtenstein, Belgium, Finland, Israel, and Switzerland are all capitalist economies where people and businesses own the factors of production, decide their own careers and own private property. So no, I do not “admit” they are communist states and if you think they are you are very poorly educated.

      If you believe that any use of the socialization of anything means the entire country is socialist or communist then you’re a tad crazy. Sometimes, not often but occasionally, a socialist answer to a question may be the pragmatic answer but I believe it is seldom the moral or correct answer because inherent in the socialist/communist philosophy is the need for force. Not just on the occasion of necessity but as the main drive behind all programs and all compliance.

      You know right well what communism consists of you just don’t want to admit it because like most communists you need to hide the evil that you propose. Your entire interpretation of the definition of communism, how it applies to European nations, how it’s infecting America is silly nonsense and I reject it all. Try again but this time be serious.

      Once again it’s hard to have a conversation with a dishonest person who seems to put more effort into deriding, inventing and putting words in people’s mouths than giving an honest proposal.

    • formwiz says:

      Relying on anything off Wiki is really asking for it.

      And literary definitions aren’t what they’re cracked up to be, anyway.

      Red China’s still around, as is North Vietnam and Cooba. Russia remained that way for 70 years and, no, Lenin saw no need to switch from an authoritarian state.

      There’s no slippery slope to communism?

      Harvey’s attempts at sophistry went out about 50 years ago when the Lefties realized no country ever voluntarily went Commie. Like Stalin, she thinks she’s and intellectual (she most copy and paste these screeds from what her massas send her)

      • Kye says:

        Apparently, formwiz Harvey’s appeal to sophistry knows no bounds. It’s a constant in his postings. Recently I read that people vote themselves into socialism but have to shoot their way out. Seems a truism to me.

        The thing about fee market capitalism is you need not participate. You are quite welcome to go out in the forest and pitch a tent and barter with others of your kind. But all forms of socialism requires the participation of all even against their will or the whole thing falls apart. So to answer Elwood’s question the main difference between capitalism and socialism of any kind is Freedom!

        • Elwood P. Dowd says:

          So universal healthcare infringes on your Freedom?

          • Kye says:

            So universal healthcare infringes on your Freedom?

            Only if I’m forced to buy it. That’s why we currently have what is called a “free market”. Duh!

            Just so you know we currently have “universal health care”, we just don’t have universal health insurance.

            Just like Social Security is a communist scam and a ponzi scheme, any form of mandatory government health insurance would be too. There are much, much better ways to accomplish the goals of either program using the free market but that would take power from the hands of the kleptocrats.

          • david7134 says:

            Jeff,
            Stupid as a rock. Government run health care is the ultimate in kids of freedom. The government has complete control over every aspect of you. What most people don’t understand is that our present system reduces our freedom. This was part of the socialism imposed by Wilson. The best system is allowing everyone complete access to drugs and the ability to care for much of your health. But liberals would die before they allowed that.

          • formwiz says:

            No, because it’s an axe that hangs over everyone. What is given can be taken away.

            Nobody wants to trust that to a petulant, vain, vengeful, intellectually immature Negro like Zippy.

            Or you.

          • Hoss says:

            Absolutely it impinges on my freedom. It’s awesome you think taking away any mobility of health care is freedom-inducing. And the fact that you morons want the government in charge only tells me how unserious you are as wannabe leaders of this country.

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