Hot Take: The Founders Would Have Supported Socialized Medicare For All

Dr. Jeanne Abrams at the University of Denver thinks she’s on to something

Why the Founders would have supported Medicare-for-all

As the Democratic primary campaign unfolds, health care remains the subject of heated discussion. While the conversation about universal access and government responsibility has followed partisan lines in the 21st century, the idea that government has, could and should shoulder responsibilities to ensure the health and well-being of its citizens is at the heart of our country’s founding.

George and Martha Washington, John and Abigail Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and James and Dolly Madison lived in an age where modern medicine was just beginning to develop. Even though they were part of the colonial elite, none were immune to sickness, disease and rampant epidemics, and concerns about both public and personal health frequently shaped the trajectory of their daily lives.

Despite their political differences, they all recognized early on that the economic, social and political health of the American nation clearly was connected to the physical health of its citizens, lessons leaders of both parties should remember today.

OK, so what does that have to do with The Government being in charge of all our healthcare?

The Founders’ personal encounters with illness and tragic loss of family members, including many of their children, made them acutely sensitive to issues surrounding medical treatment and disease. Smallpox and yellow fever epidemics provided the impetus for several early American health-care initiatives. As early as 1777, during the height of the Revolutionary War, John Adams recorded that the Continental Congress had passed legislation that expanded the Army’s Hospital Department. He lamented the fact that more soldiers died of smallpox than British bullets. The frugal New Englander wrote his wife, Abigail, with approval that, “The expense will be great, but humanity overcame avarice.”

Later, after Adams became the second president of the United States, he signed a bill in 1798 “to provide for the relief and maintenance of disabled seamen,” creating the U.S. Marine Hospital Service. It gave rise to a network of hospitals located at sea and river ports across the country, and over the next century it evolved into the national U.S. Public Health Service. The 1798 bill passed following a severe outbreak of yellow fever, as Adams and other politicians recognized that sailors often brought a variety of diseases with them to ports, including smallpox, yellow fever and malaria, and quarantine was sometimes necessary.

Still not to the point of Government generously taxing the living shit of citizens and being in control of who gets what for healthcare

This belief united the founding generation that was otherwise frequently divided over questions about the role of government in American life. For example, Franklin helped found the country’s first voluntary public hospital (financed through a combination of individual private contributions and government funds) and the first American medical school. Washington insisted on smallpox inoculation for all his Revolutionary War troops, as many of the young soldiers had never been exposed to the disease. Despite concerns about ineffectiveness and even the dangerous potential for contracting a severe case of smallpox, which could be fatal, Washington believed such a mandate could protect his troops and help ensure the success of the war effort.

Still not getting there

From the beginning, America’s Founders recognized that government had compelling reasons to shoulder some new responsibilities with respect to ensuring the health and well-being of its citizenry while still protecting individual liberty, an outlook which contemporary Americans from across the political spectrum should appreciate as they search for common ground over a contentious issue that personally affects us all.

Yeah, still not there, and that’s the last paragraph. “Should some new responsibilities” is a far cry from Government being out healthcare controller, eh? This is just a wishful fantasy from a Big Government leftist (who is probably against privately owned firearms and would screech about hate speech and stuff) who can only provide some small examples from a few of the Founders, forgetting that if they wanted government running healthcare, they would have put it in the Declaration Of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution. The Founders believed in a very limited role of the Federal Government, and wrote the Constitution on those beliefs.

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63 Responses to “Hot Take: The Founders Would Have Supported Socialized Medicare For All”

  1. John says:

    Teach where is that damn surrender monkey !?
    Trump is getting ready to surrender to the Taliban
    For almost 20 years you were calling libs traitors for not supporting those wars

    • formwiz says:

      Only because they are.

      The bathroom boy confuses siding with the bad guys with wanting to see a just peace.

    • Hoss says:

      It wasn’t the “not supporting” the war that they voted for that troubled folks (well, that too), it was the constant siding with the Taliban and demanding that a pull-out date be announced.

  2. Liljeffyatemypuppy says:

    Since johnny retard brought it up…

    Speaking of traitors:

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/mattis-obama-failed-to-respond-to-iran-bomb-plot-on-u-s-soil-because-of-nuclear-deal/

    Lolgf retard. https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

  3. Bill589 says:

    “With regard to the idea of whether you have a right to health care, you have to realize what that implies. It’s not an abstraction. I’m a physician. That means you have a right to come to my house and conscript me. It means you believe in slavery. It means that you’re going to enslave not only me, but the janitor at my hospital, the person who cleans my office, and the assistants who work in my office, the nurses.” — Rand Paul

    • Kye says:

      That is exactly correct, Bill589. I’ve been saying that since theses fascists first began raving about health care being a “right”. In order for ones “care” to be a right others, in this case many others, must be compelled to provide it. That’s called slavery. A right is something to which one has just claims and the forced labor or money of another is not a just claim.

    • Elwood P. Dowd says:

      Dr. Paul conflates health care with health insurance. Why does he care who pays him, whether the patient, insurance or gov’t?

      Universal healthcare makes practical sense.

      • Kye says:

        Are you suggesting health insurance is a right, Fredo? Exactly where would I find said “right” in our laws and who should pay for that “right” since it does translate into care sooner or later.

        I assume Dr. Paul “cares who pays him” because the person who pays controls the sale because if he decides not to pay services stop.

        Fredo, you complained that Dr. Paul is conflating health care with health insurance then you last sentence states “Universal healthcare makes practical sense” conflating the two yourself. I know you’re smart, Fredo, not dumb, smart so you MUST realize Universal Healthcare requires universal enslavement as was stated at the beginning.

        Trump 2020 Don’t let the commies enslave us for their own health care.

        • Elwood P. Dowd says:

          I’m stating that health care is a right, Asshole.

          I know you’re dumb, Asshole, not smart, so you may not realize that universal healthcare is practiced by every other advanced nation on Earth. Are Israelis ehslaved? Japanese? Germans? Swiss? Swedes?

          They spend only about half on healthcare as we Americans do.

          • formwiz says:

            Bear suit is out.

            You raise freedom and it shows exactly what he wants to impose.

            Health care is a right? Kick him out of a helicopter over the New Guinea jungle for a week with only a canteen cup and a knife and he’ll find out in short order what “rights” he has.

            Health care is a right until the government wants to punish somebody or deems them expendable to the interests of government.

            Are Israelis ehslaved? Japanese? Germans? Swiss? Swedes?</i.

            By the taxes they have to pay, yes.

            They spend only about half on healthcare as we Americans do.

            Lie.

            The usurious taxes they pay make their health care, given the lousy quality, hideously expensive.

          • Elwood P. Dowd says:

            The skin suit is a liar and an idiot.

          • Kye says:

            Fredo, you’re at it again. If health care is a right then doctors and staff can be forced to provide it for everyone on demand. That’s slavery you moron. Health care is not a right simply because health care requires the performance of someone else to provide you with their labor. You have no right to the labor of a doctor or nurse or any other medical person. Unless once again you Democrats are trying to enslave people. I thought we broke you of that bad habit back in 1863. You don’t own other people and you can’t force them as slaves to give you health care! Maybe they are right, Fredo, maybe you aren’t smart, maybe you’re dumb just like they say.

          • Elwood P. Dowd says:

            Are the medical personnel in Israel slaves? That’s what The Asshole is saying.

            According to the Emergency Medical and Treatment Labor Act (EMTLA) of 1986, US emergency rooms cannot deny care to the indigent or uninsured. Does that law enslave ER medical personnel?

            We get it, Asshole. The Asshole doesn’t like the idea of guaranteed universal healthcare to Americans because he views some Americans as more deserving than other Americans, therefore he creates arguments from whole cloth about slavery!

            In fact, universal healthcare would be good for America, as it would reduce overall healthcare costs and free workers from the constant worry of losing their family coverage.

          • Liljeffyatemypuppy says:

            ^^^Points and laughs.^^^

            So many words, so much stupid.
            Keep milking that dead cow, little sissybitch.

            Lolgfy loser. https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

          • Dana says:

            Mr Dowd wrote:

            I’m stating that health care is a right, Asshole.

            The First Amendment guarantees our rights to freedom of speech, of the press, of religion and of assembly; it does not guarantee that we be provided with a place to speak or that The New York Times print what we write. The Second Amendment guarantees our right to keep and bear arms; it does not guarantee that we will be provided with a firearm if we don’t have one.

            You are advocating something entirely different, that if you show up demanding health care, someone has to provide it for you. You have gone from rights inherent in yourself, rights you exercise personally, to a right to compel someone else to provide something for you. One would hope that you could see the qualitative difference between those things.

            That, of course, translates into you sticking your hand into John’s pocket, and pulling money that he earned out of his wallet, to pay for your gender reassignment surgery. Why should John be compelled to pay for that? Closer to where John lives, why should money that he earned be pulled out of his pocket to pay to save the life of some street thug in the emergency room at Temple University Hospital after said thug was shot by another thug on Broad Street? After all, the City of Brotherly Love would be better off if said street thug went to his eternal reward rather than being patched up and returned to the combat zone.

          • Liljeffyatemypuppy says:

            One would hope that you could see the qualitative difference between those things.

            With the little sissybitch not a chance.

            https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

          • Elwood P. Dowd says:

            Doesn’t LilBitch’s garage band have a gig at the old folks home?

            Lots of rectal thermometers waiting for you there.

          • Elwood P. Dowd says:

            Has Mr. Dana refused to accept Social Security and Medicare?

            If a non-working senior accepts Medicare, they are being subsidized by working Americans and especially by working seniors who pay a severe premium penalty as well as continued Medicare taxes! Non-working seniors are reaching into the wallets of workers! Kudos to you for not doing that, right?

            We’ve considered and rejected your argument as inhumane that poor people and seniors should just shut up, suffer and die. We suspect your position is a minority position. NICus are filled with babies from poor families – would you pull the plugs to save a few pennies of taxes?

          • Dana says:

            Of course I accept Social Security and Medicare, because I was taxed for 45 years to pay for them. I have already stated that even if I had a billion euros in the bank, I would extract every last ruble of my Social Security and Medicare benefits because I was robbed of that money during my working life.

        • Elwood P. Dowd says:

          Fair enough.

          It’s OK for Mr. Dana to steal money from today’s workers but wrong for others to do it.

          Got it.

      • formwiz says:

        It’s not who pays him, but the strings attached. Who lives, who dies.

        Kind of like government controlling food. If your next meal depends on Fatty Nadless or Occasional Cortex, they own you.

        Universal healthcare makes practical sense.

        Only if you like the idea of ideologues telling you how to live.

  4. david7134 says:

    We used to have free access to medical care. You could go to the drug store and buy what you needed. If a doctor could help you, then you would consult him. Then in 1913, Wilson took our health care away and now you are compelled to go to a doctor to get permission for the drugs you need. Supplies of these meds are regulated and the doctor works as an agent of the government.

    This adds substantial cost to the care of your illness and it is wrong.

    • Elwood P. Dowd says:

      david,

      Should all medicines be available on demand without regulation?

      What drugs did they have in 1900? Cocaine. Morphine. Heroin. Radium. Opium. Chloroform. Tobacco. Mercury. Aspirin.

      How did life expectancy in 1900 compare to 2000?

      Did you give you patients with common colds antibiotics if they asked? Why not?

      • formwiz says:

        Something called tolerance. Something else called resistance. Just because somebody asks for something doesn’t mean they should get it. Leftists want to run the world. Given the state of the Democrat party, who in their right mind would allow them?

        Considering david is a better man than you, your petulant questions, intended to elicit guilt and put him at a disadvantage so you might have some political advantage, are merely churlish.

        And you know less about medicine (surprise!) than you think. One of the most important medicines was soap and water. Yes, little bunny suit, sanitation was still in its infancy. By 1900, Pasteur was developing vaccines for things like rabies. Smallpox vaccination was available.

        And most of the “drugs” you mention caused more harm than good.

        Leave medicine to the intelligent people.

        PS Truth in advertising: david strikes me as a very Libertarian-oriented individual, and often they think there should be no government who gets in their particular way, regardless of its impact on society. Medical care was never “free” and the memoirs and journals of the day resound with how much bunkum and truly dangerous procedures were foisted on society in the pursuit of that “freedom”. Regulating habit-forming drugs has always struck me as a beneficial thing for society, as has going to see someone who actually knows what the Hell they were doing when it comes to illness or injury.

        YMMV

        PS Tobacco is not a drug. Aspirin is available over the counter. And you forgot booze.

        • Elwood P. Dowd says:

          Dumbass,

          All those drugs were OTC in 1900. Doctors were recommending tobacco to their asthma patients way back when.

          Medical care is not free. We pay for it through taxes, premiums, copays, other out of pocket, reduced pay from employers…

          It’s the same for all the advanced nations, except we pay much more per capita than they do.

          • Doom and Gloom says:

            In the United States, healthcare is a 5 trillion dollar per year industry which contributes to the GDP of our nation. Millions of high paying, high benefit jobs.

            Let’s start with your overall problem with healthcare.

            Not everyone has it.
            People who have healthcare are often hit with high after insurance costs.
            Illegals usually do not have access to healthcare for fear of retribution.
            Healthcare is a RIGHT.

            Those four things alone can easily be addressed without raping the healthcare system.

            Currently, the left is screaming for medicare for all. Medicare pays paltry sums to hospitals and doctors leaving the patient with hefty out of pocket expenses after medicare pays. Hence the aftermarket insurance or SUPPLEMENTAL which then pays some more.

            So even with medicare for all everyone ends up needing supplemental insurance which costs between 120-400 per month per individual to protect you from catastrophic out of pocket expenses not to mention Medicare does not cover most prescription drugs.

            So the problem with medicare for all continues to be the catastrophic consequence it will have on the entire medical profession along with the astounding costs to the US government to cover everyone with a UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE which is what the LEFT BELIEVES MEDICARE IS!

            It is not. One needs currently to pay 115(Minimum) a month for medicare and then 120-400 a month for a supplemental bringing your cost to 235-515 per month.

            I have a Question for Elwood. Why are you so sold on Medicare for all? It is as expensive as most insurance that you can buy now.

            What is your solution to the health care problems as you see them? Besides Medicare for all which is a blanket response that is so full of holes as to be preposterous.

          • formwiz says:

            No, we do not. We have the second smallest gas tax in the world. Watch that go away.

            Our sales tax nationwide is 0; states charge 4 – 7%. The Euros put up with 25%.

            Our income tax averages out at 37%, the Euros pay in the middle 50s.

            So little moron screws it again.

          • Elwood P. Dowd says:

            D and G,

            As I’ve said before, I oppose Medicare for all.

      • david7134 says:

        Jeff,
        Let’s start with the safe assumption that you know next to nothing about health care. Studies have shown that allowing people ready access to drugs of all kinds does not lead to excessive issues. You came have anything you desire in most European cities, no problem. In India, any antibiotic. The fact is that we are little better off in drug abuse now versus then. Life spans have improved secondary to antibiotics and other health measures but not due to government control. Above you referenced the difference in insurance versus care, you are so stupid that you do not know that insurance dictates to doctors what they can do.

        • Hoss says:

          He has talking-points, and that’s as much as you can expect from a leftist.

          • Kye says:

            That’s because talking points are all his programmers will trust him with, Hoss. Once they expand beyond “the narrative” he will resort to calling you names. It’s in their rule book.

          • Elwood P. Dowd says:

            And yet The Asshole never refutes even one of the so-called “talking points”.

            We get it, Asshole. It’s NuCon self-preservation and projection.

            Here’s a “talking point” you’ve yet to refute:

            Every advanced nation on Earth (Australia, Belgium, Canada, etc, etc) delivers quality healthcare to ALL their citizens for about half of what we spend on a per person basis. If Americans spent only half of what we now spend on healthcare we would save some $1.5 TRILLION a year. Wow. Wouldn’t $1.5 TRILLION every year in the pockets of working class Americans be a good thing?

        • david7134 says:

          Jeff,
          We have covered those issues before. All of the countries that you list do not provide adequate defense of their population and rely on the US for this. Then many are trying to eliminate their socialist positions, and others get an enormous amount of money from us or oil. As to the cost, as I have told you, that is secondary to our government, they set the prices.

          • Elwood P. Dowd says:

            Their defense budgets have nothing to do with their healthcare costs.

            You have no idea what you’re talking about.

          • Liljeffyatemypuppy says:

            … and you do?

            Bwaha! Lolgfy little sissybitch.

            https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

          • david7134 says:

            Jeff,
            The countries are free to spend money as they do not have defense budgets. As to cost of health care, yes you are actually right. These countries tell you if you can have your brain tumor removed, or die from it. That is the way government systems work. The next stupid thing you will say is there are fewer deaths, true, these countries have healthier citizens from diet and genetics, not the government systems.

  5. formwiz says:

    The skin suit is a liar and an idiot.

    Thank you for recognizing me as a human being. The rest is all lies.

    Are the medical personnel in Israel slaves? That’s what The Asshole is saying.

    He projects again. And, yes, if they must do what the government tells them down to the last scintilla.

    According to the Emergency Medical and Treatment Labor Act (EMTLA) of 1986, US emergency rooms cannot deny care to the indigent or uninsured. Does that law enslave ER medical personnel?

    If you do work without being paid, that’s slavery. Somebody who screams, “Rrraaaacccciiiisssstttt!!!!”, all the time should know that.

    We get it, Asshole. The Asshole doesn’t like the idea of guaranteed universal healthcare to Americans because he views some Americans as more deserving than other Americans, therefore he creates arguments from whole cloth about slavery!

    Heavier taxes with worse care isn’t discrimination. It’s just being intelligent. And you really don’t have a rebuttal, do you?

    Race and profanity are no substitute for facts.

    In fact, universal healthcare would be good for America, as it would reduce overall healthcare costs and free workers from the constant worry of losing their family coverage.

    People didn’t have that worry before IdiotCare came along and it would be awful for this country because care would be sacrificed. And costs would go up, not down.

  6. formwiz says:

    And yet The Asshole never refutes even one of the so-called “talking points”.

    Of course, I have, but the bunny suit ignores facts.

    We get it, Asshole. It’s NuCon self-preservation and projection.

    Here’s a “talking point” you’ve yet to refute:

    Every advanced nation on Earth (Australia, Belgium, Canada, etc, etc) delivers quality healthcare to ALL their citizens for about half of what we spend on a per person basis. If Americans spent only half of what we now spend on healthcare we would save some $1.5 TRILLION a year. Wow. Wouldn’t $1.5 TRILLION every year in the pockets of working class Americans be a good thing?

    We have the best care in the world right now with the least (though by no means optimal) government interference.

    No, they don’t. A wait of years for necessary surgery is not quality. Being given a little red pill instead of real medicine is not quality.

    And we all know politicians would create new and important “rights” that 1.5T would be spent on instead of going back to the taxpayers. Bernie says single payer would cost 40T.

    Lessee now, 40 – 1.5 = 38.5. So the cost would go up 38.5T.

    Wow, wotta bargain.

    • Elwood P. Dowd says:

      You’re The Dumbass, not The Asshole.

      You have no idea what you’re talking about.

      If we change absolutely nothing, Dumbass, we will spend over $40 TRILLION the next ten years on healthcare.

      In fact, the $1.5 trillion savings per year would never leave the working classes hands, Dumbass.

      You have no idea what you’re talking about. Typical tRump Cultist.

      • formwiz says:

        Notice he just throws this stuff out without anything to back it up?

        And the working stiffs are the ones who never wanted IdiotCare. That’s why they voted for Trump.

        The average family is realizing a $5200 boost in income, thanks to The Donald’s tax cut that the bear suit hates.

        That’s how much he knows.

        • Elwood P. Dowd says:

          The Dumbass whines about no citations, claims Americans are realizing an average $5200 increase in income – with nothing to back up his claim. Typical of The Dumbass.

          “The average household would get a tax cut of $1,610 in 2018, a bump of about 2.2 percent in that average household’s income, according to a report released Monday by the Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan think tank that has been critical of the tax overhaul plan.

          However, extremes make averages, and the benefits would be much larger for richer households. A household earning $1 million or more would get an average cut of $69,660, an income bump of 3.3 percent. Compare that with the a tax cut of $870, or 1.6 percent, for the average household earning $50,000 to $75,000.”

          Your numbers don’t add up. Did you mean that it would add $5200 to household income over the next 10 years??

          Anyway, tRump’s trade war with China will cost American households between $500-800 per year.

          The King giveth and the King taketh away. In the meantime, the debt is exploding and America is not using that debt to rebuild our nation.

          Will tRump dismantle the ACA and replace it with something much better and cheaper before the next election, LOL? Working stiffs aren’t as stupid as you hope.

          The ameriCons are living their wet dream though, dirty air; dirty water; more money for the rich; chaos; more danger for workers; hatred for blacks, gays, immigrants; and of course, pure cruelty.

          All The Dumbass ever says is “is not”, “does not”, or recite made-up data.

          • david7134 says:

            Jeff,
            What does the ACA do for patients? You don’t know. All it does is to provide the people with a piece of paper and the ability to see a gp. They have that already. But the program significantly restrict their ability to see a consultant or get needed testing. In short it is a hoax. Much like your climate hoax and other fantasies. All this hoax did was to expand Medicaid roles. The bad part is that once you make more money, you have to pay the government back. Thus assuring that you stay in poverty.

          • formwiz says:

            All we hear from the bunny suit is unsupported claims and name-calling.

            He notes, unlinked, claims from places hostile to current policy. Well, here’s proof income went up.

            And the tariff war is being won. That’s the real problem he has. Don’t buy Red and it costs you nothing.

            He never uses numbers that add up and he calls other people dumbass.

            Well, the bear suit is out because the bunny suit’s ass is being kicked yet again. He cries about the debt, but he wants a health plan that will explode the debt, but give control to the government.

  7. Kye says:

    “Every advanced nation on Earth (Australia, Belgium, Canada, etc, etc) delivers quality healthcare to ALL their citizens for about half of what we spend on a per person basis. ”

    Fredo, even you’re not that dumb. In all those countries you list the people must buy supplemental private insurance to get the actual coverage they want. BTW, about 200,000 Canadians trek to the US a year to get the services they can’t get under their “quality healthcare for all citizens”. Also in all of those countries the government decides what is covered and who is covered.

    Now Fredo you may consider that “talking point” REFUTED!

    Trump 2020 REFUTE all leftist Fredo’s!

    • Elwood P. Dowd says:

      PAsshole,

      None of what you claim is true. The TOTAL spend per person in those countries is on average 1/2 of what we pay. That’s total, all in.

      More Americans go to Canada for care and meds than come here.

      Not refuted, PAsshole. You’re not smart enough to refute anything.

      • Liljeffyatemypuppy says:

        Handwaving and “is not” are not valid counter-arguments.

        Read that somewhere.

        Lolgfy little sissybitch. https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

      • Kye says:

        False, Fredo, false! More Americans send to Canada for meds but Canadians come here for procedures. Sorry, Fredo, wrong again. You really swallow the leftist narrative whole, don’t you? You never bother to actually look around. For example, I have a couple friends who are Canadian doctors and they have related the Canadian myth to me. I met them in Boca Raton where they come to practice three months a year after they have reached the income limit in Canada. They make more in Florida in three months than in Canada for nine and it’s all cash. They told me stories of people not being able to see a doctor for months sometimes costing them their lives by waiting. All you do is absorb the communist propaganda and regurgitate the prescribed answers. Sorry Fredo, you are like they say, dumb. Your whole party is corrupt and want to take out God-given rights away and they’ll start by disarming us. You’re all liars. The whole rotten bunch of ya!

        Trump 2020 (The link says it all)

        https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RGNmmjDFNpc/XXKGKUekSUI/AAAAAAAB-mg/C0KVgaVc1aMtKLIlNONDVl4vBhhaVpxtACLcBGAs/s1600/trump%2B543566766.png

      • david7134 says:

        Jeff,
        On cost, remember that our great government tells us what the cost will be. Prove the statement on people going to Canada.

        • Elwood P. Dowd says:

          david and The Asshole,

          Can you prove the statement about how many Canadians come to the US for treatment?

          Canadian tourists already here who visit a clinic don’t count.

        • Kye says:

          “On cost, remember that our great government tells us what the cost will be. Prove the statement on people going to Canada.”

          How does “our great government” tell us what the cost will be? Yes, I can prove the statement.

          • david7134 says:

            Kye,
            I think we got crossed in comments, I was addressing Jeff. But cost in the US is set by the government in a number of ways.

      • formwiz says:

        No, that’s what all those high taxes are about. Why else would they need it?

        And most of the time, all it gets them is a spot on a wait list.

        They certainly don’t spend it on defense.

      • formwiz says:

        You just say that, but you give no facys (wotta sir prize).

        But we can show the usurious taxes required to pay for 4th rate care and year long waits for surgery.

        More Americans go to Canada for care and meds than come here.

        If you’re talking people trying to get something banned by the FDA, try again. How many people want to wait a year for necessary surgery?

      • formwiz says:

        The bunny suit says we just make unsupported claims, but here he is, making up the same old lies with nothing but his say-so.

        And yet he talks about how smart we are.

        He’s losing and he knows it and, like the mental 2 year old he is, he throws a tantrum when he’s called on it.

        • Elwood P. Dowd says:

          There’s no winning or losing, only truth vs your lies. Lying to win an argument isn’t winning.

          Cons have become more and more bold in their repeated falsehoods, likely because your God-King cannot tell the truth.

  8. formwiz says:

    Has Mr. Dana refused to accept Social Security and Medicare?

    If a non-working senior accepts Medicare, they are being subsidized by working Americans and especially by working seniors who pay a severe premium penalty as well as continued Medicare taxes! Non-working seniors are reaching into the wallets of workers! Kudos to you for not doing that, right?

    That’s what Medicare For All would be. Today it’s called Medical Assistance.

    And bunny suit is right.

    This is why Social Security should be privatized. That’s social justice.

    We’ve considered and rejected your argument as inhumane that poor people and seniors should just shut up, suffer and die. We suspect your position is a minority position. NICus are filled with babies from poor families – would you pull the plugs to save a few pennies of taxes?<>

    When did anybody care what you reject?

    • formwiz says:

      Their defense budgets have nothing to do with their healthcare costs.

      You have no idea what you’re talking about.

      Money is money, you spend it on one thing or another.

      They need those usurious taxes even with miniscule defense.

      You just lie.

      • formwiz says:

        Doesn’t LilBitch’s garage band have a gig at the old folks home?

        Lots of rectal thermometers waiting for you there.

        Sounds like Mr Restraining Order is an expert.

    • Elwood P. Dowd says:

      Are we to believe that The Dumbass agrees with Mr. Dana that poor people should be allowed to die if they can’t afford treatment?

  9. david7134 says:

    Jeff,
    Many here might not be aware that you represent a middle position in the drug industry and this a needless expense added to our drug bills. One thing that is certain is that we pay way too much for medications. Why don’t you tell us why we have to pay so much?

    • Elwood P. Dowd says:

      We pay too much for drugs (and high-tech apps and devices) because of our patent protection system. The US gov’t protects drug companies, Microsoft, Apple etc from competition by enforcing patents. Ever notice the 100 fold drop in a medicine’s price when it comes off patent? In addition, drug companies develop “me too” drugs that don’t necessarily improve benefit to the patient, but use marketing campaigns to hype and sell the “new and improved” version. Drug companies used to be able to bribe docs to use their drugs.

      Clearly a drug company deserves to make a profit off their R and D that delivers a drug addressing an unmet medical need, but perhaps a gov’t enforced monopoly isn’t the best way to encourage innovation.

      Chapter 5 in Dean Baker’s book, “Rigged”, helps explain.

      https://deanbaker.net/images/stories/documents/Rigged.epub

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