Washington Post: Trump’s Guilty Till He Proves Himself Innocent

For people who say they’re totally for civil liberties, Democrats sure like to come out against them when a Republican is involved (we’re still waiting for the opinion pieces from the WaPost, NY Times, LA Times, CNN, etc on Keith Ellison), going with the “guilty till proven innocent” belief

There’s no need to fear Mueller, Mr. President — if you’ve nothing to hide

(that’s the headline on the web front page. Inside the article it’s “Meet with Mueller already, Mr. President”

RUDOLPH W. GIULIANI, President Trump’s lawyer, told the Wall Street Journal in an interview published Sunday that Mr. Trump would not sit down with special counsel Robert S. Mueller III if the meeting would fall after Sept. 1, “because we’re not going to be the ones to interfere with the election.” We would accuse Mr. Giuliani of moving the goal posts, except that Mr. Trump’s lawyers have never clearly pledged that the president would meet with Mr. Mueller at any time. Just last week they suggested Mr. Trump would take questions about collusion but not obstruction of justice.

This silly game has gone on far too long. The country was attacked. Mr. Mueller is trying to determine what happened. The president should be eager to help the country learn and move on. Instead, his lawyers have spent the summer hemming and hawing about the right circumstances for an interview.

Perhaps Mr. Mueller should take his politicized investigation which is full of mostly Democrats and has focused on processed crimes with little to nothing to do with Russia blasting a few Facebook posts and tweets and investigate the people who were in office when this was going on.

After more blah blah blah

If Mr. Trump has done nothing wrong and intends to tell the truth, he should welcome Mr. Mueller’s questioning and do everything possible to hasten the special counsel’s final report. Yet , Mr. Giuliani raised the possibility of the Trump side instead preparing its own report to counter whatever Mr. Mueller releases. The effort to create a he-said, he-said situation only heightens the impression that the president has reason to fear the truth. To help dispel that impression, he should answer Mr. Mueller’s questions, and soon.

There’s so much wrong with that, starting with the notion that if you’re refusing to voluntarily throw yourself on the floor in front of a prosecutor (indict a ham sandwich) you must be guilty of something. Even a president has rights.

But, remember, this is the same paper which never wanted Obama nor his team investigated over numerous wrong-doings. Is this a bit “whataboutism”? Well, of course. But, the WaPost never came out and said “give up the info, Mr. President!” when it came to things like Benghazi and Fast and Furious, both of which resulted in actual deaths, unlike this Russian interference, which….what did it do, by the way? Did it make Hillary collapse on 9/11? Forget to visit states she needed? Insult tens of millions of Americans? Or, remember when Team Obama with Hillary at State interfered with Russian elections, along with those in other countries?

Regardless, imagine Hillary was in office and being accused of collusion: think the Washington Post Editorial Board would telling her to testify, or that Mueller needs to show proof or move on?

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43 Responses to “Washington Post: Trump’s Guilty Till He Proves Himself Innocent”

  1. Zachriel says:

    William Teach: There’s so much wrong with that, starting with the notion that if you’re refusing to voluntarily throw yourself on the floor in front of a prosecutor (indict a ham sandwich) you must be guilty of something. Even a president has rights.

    The President has the right to invoke the Fifth Amendment. Otherwise, he is requires to testify like every other citizen.

    William Teach: But, remember, this is the same paper which never wanted Obama nor his team investigated over numerous wrong-doings. Is this a bit “whataboutism”? Well, of course.

    Well, duh.

    William Teach: But, the WaPost never came out and said “give up the info, Mr. President!” when it came to things like Benghazi and Fast and Furious, both of which resulted in actual deaths,

    In fact, all the principals testified before Congress, sometimes multiple times. While there was evidence of bureaucratic failures, multiple investigations and re-investigations never uncovered any evidence of wrong-doing.

    William Teach: unlike this Russian interference, which….what did it do, by the way?

    The release of emails stolen from the DNC by Russian agents threw the Democratic Convention and the Democratic campaign into turmoil. Russian agents amplified anti-Clinton stories (including fake news stories such as pizzagate which nearly half of Republicans believed to be true) throughout the campaign.

    • drowningpuppies says:

      That’s right kiddiez just keep making it up as you go along by spouting DNC talking points.

      https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

    • david7134 says:

      Z,
      It is amazing to see propaganda in action. You really need the get past your teens and obtain a better education. Your knowledge and assessment are wrong. No sense in pointing out your errors as it would have no influence.

      • Zachriel says:

        david7134: You really need the get past your teens and obtain a better education.

        Z: facts and logic
        d: you’re stupid

        Our readers can decide for themselves who has made the better argument.

        • david7134 says:

          Z,
          The conservative web site that you go to are well aware of your age and your little club. What we can’t understand is your lack of depth of knowledge. I had kids in high school a few years ago and was amazed that they lacked the ability to think past the propaganda of their teachers. Now that they have gotten out and understand the lies, they seem better able to assess situations. Your time will possibly come.

          • Zachriel says:

            david7134: {blah, blah}

            Let us know when you want to address the topic.

            William Teach: Even a president has rights.

            That’s right! The President can invoke the Fifth Amendment, just like any other citizen.

          • david7134 says:

            Z,
            You are not addressing a thing, just liberal talking point. Come back when you have some free thought.

          • Zachriel says:

            david7134: You are not addressing a thing

            This isn’t so hard david7134. Instead of waving your hands, try addressing each point in turn.

            Z: The President has the right to invoke the Fifth Amendment. Otherwise, he is requires to testify like every other citizen on matters pertinent to criminal proceedings.

            Do you disagree? If so, why? Can you support your position by reference to law or fact?

            Z: The release of emails stolen from the DNC by Russian agents threw the Democratic Convention and the Democratic campaign into turmoil.

            Do you disagree? If so, why? Can you support your position by reference to fact?

  2. Sabre22 says:

    Nothing to fear from a PERJURY TRAP NO NOTHING AT ALL.

  3. Jeffery says:

    tRump vs Ellison.

    tRump is US president, Mr. Ellison is running for state AG.

    tRump has been accused of assaulting 22 women, including physically assaulting his then wife, Ivana. Mr. Ellison is accused of assaulting an ex-girlfriend.

    Who should get the more press?

    Another fine whine from the right…

  4. Jeffery says:

    Is trump afraid he will commit perjury if questioned?

    He is actually terrified by what Mr. Mueller may know.

    It’s likely trump will work a deal with the prosecutor to resign in exchange for reduced charges for him and others.

    • drowningpuppies says:

      And tell us why the President should submit to questioning by the Mueller team?
      Has he been accused of breaking any laws?
      Which laws? Anyone?
      Obviously the nignorant angry little black fella from st. louis hasn’t a clue.

      https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

    • david7134 says:

      Jeff,
      Never have been in a trial have you. Likely never have given a deposition. First, in the justice system, there is little truth involved. Second an average lawyer can easily spin your statements to make it seem you are lying when you are trying to give a truthful answer. You see, a large problem that you have is ingorance, stupidity, poor educational background and all the other elements that make one a loser.

  5. Jeffery says:

    The ongoing Special Counsel investigation is a United States law enforcement and counterintelligence investigation of the Russian government’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, including an investigation of any possible links and/or coordination between Donald Trump’s presidential campaign and the Russian government, “and any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.” The scope of the investigation reportedly also includes potential obstruction of justice by Trump and others.

    tRump has admitted that his campaign colluded with the Russians. It’s likely tRump has obstructed justice, as well.

    Did president tRump conspire with Russia to sabotage the election? Several staffers and associates, including his campaign chairman (jury is deliberating), National Security Advisor (pled guilty), AG (recused), Don Jr., campaign advisor Papadapolous (pled guilty), campaign aid Rick Gates (pled guilty), Jarod Kushner, were in contact with Russian operatives during the campaign. tRump’s “fixer”, Michael Cohen is under investigation, too. 28 Russians or Russian agencies have been indicted.

    • drowningpuppies says:

      Trump never admitted his campaign colluded with the Russkies.

      Nignorant angry little black fella from st. louis be lyinn’ again.

      https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

    • david7134 says:

      Jeff,
      So talking to Russians is against the law. What about the Clintons taking exorbitant sums of money for a short speech. Or how about Hillary arranging for false evidence on Trump from a foreign entity. You are blind to the crimes of one of the worst people in our history and over look the incompetence and corruption of Obama and group. Until you give some evidence of concern to the Clintons and others, then your rantings about Trump mean very little. By the way, you are either misinformed or lying about Trump. So it clearly shows your acting the fool.

      • Zachriel says:

        david7134: So talking to Russians is against the law.

        No. But knowingly working with Russian government agents in their efforts to help your campaign, then lying about it to the FBI, is against the law.

        {snip whataboutisms}

        • drowningpuppies says:

          Well then they should subpoena Hillary, the Podesta brothers (oh wait, Mueller’s team gave them immunity!), Steele, Perkins Coie… etc.

          https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

  6. david7134 says:

    I am impressed that the elite in the country are calling for Trump to testify, yet they can not articulate a single crime that would require his testimony.

    • Zachriel says:

      david7134: I am impressed that the elite in the country are calling for Trump to testify, yet they can not articulate a single crime that would require his testimony.

      It doesn’t matter what the elite call for. What matters is whether the courts determine someone is a material witness. There are a number of matters where Trump’s testimony may be required. For instance, as there is evidence that Trump Jr. was attempting to work with Russian government agents to advantage the Trump campaign, and as Trump Sr may have been involved, his testimony may be required.

      If Trump should agree to an interview with the Special Counsel, then he could have a lawyer present. If he is subpoenaed, then he would be brought before the grand jury without a lawyer. Of course, he could invoke the Fifth Amendment.

      • david7134 says:

        Z,
        So, articulate the crime. So far you are using liberal talking points and have no concept of what you are talking about. Using your logic, it was ok for the Gestapo to bring in a person and get them to criminalize a situation that was normal business.

        • Zachriel says:

          david7134: So, articulate the crime.

          There was the crime of the hack of the DNC by Russian government agents hostile to the U.S. There was the crime of the hostile government interfering in the U.S. election. Another possible crime is people in the Trump campaign working with that hostile government to undermine the U.S. election. There is certainly evidence that Trump Jr. wanted to work with that hostile government in that government’s efforts to help the Trump campaign.

          • david7134 says:

            Z,
            You are just vomiting senseless Democratic points that have no merit. Now, Hillary most certainly worked with foreign governments, but that does not bother you. On your points, you have no idea if the Russians hacked anything. Then you have zero link between the Russians and Trump, Hillary yes. Then you go on about Trump Jr. meet in with a Russian, so, I do that almost daily. We are not at war with zRussia, so you can work with an other government to your hearts desire. In fact we interfere with elections all the ti!e. You have articulated nothimg.

          • drowningpuppies says:

            There was the crime of the hack of the DNC by Russian government agents hostile to the U.S.

            Never proven only assumed since the FBI was never allowed to forensically examine their server.

            There was the crime of the hostile government interfering in the U.S. election.

            Sworn testimony before Congress stated that not one vote was altered or changed. 

            Another possible crime is people in the Trump campaign working with that hostile government to undermine the U.S. election.

            Gee whiz, “possible crime”? There is no evidence of this anywhere except the collusion between Hillary’s campaign and Christopher Steele.

            There is certainly evidence that Trump Jr. wanted to work with that hostile government in that government’s efforts to help the Trump campaign.

            “Wanted to work”??? Even if that could be proven please cite the statute that says wanting to work with anyone is a crime.

            So once again, kiddiez, point by point, y’all are full of shit even if y’all realize it or not.

            https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

          • Zachriel says:

            david7134: you have no idea if the Russians hacked anything.

            Actually, we do. We know the specific URL used to spoof the Podesta account, and due to a problem with his VPN, we know Guccifer 2.0’s location is within Russian Military Intelligence. This is also consistent with Russia activities against other open democratic societies, including nascent democracies in eastern Europe.

            david7134: Then you go on about Trump Jr. meet in with a Russian, so, I do that almost daily.

            Trump Jr. was told he was meeting with Russian agents working as part of the Russian governments efforts to help the Trump campaign.

            david7134: We are not at war with zRussia, so you can work with an other government to your hearts desire.

            That would constitute an illegal campaign contribution.

          • drowningpuppies says:

            Actually, you don’t, kiddiez.

            There is a difference between independently verifiable evidence and the activity somebody claims to have engaged in or that can be fabricated in an effort to misdirect and masquerade as someone they’re not. – None of Guccifer2.0’s claims of hacking were independently verifiable and several were debunked by ThreatConnect. – There is nothing demonstrating Guccifer2.0 was really a hacker.

            Guccifer 2.0 – Game Over

            http://g-2.space/#4

            https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

          • david7134 says:

            z
            Wrong on each of your rebuts. Need more education.

          • Zachriel says:

            david7134: Wrong on each of your rebuts. Need more education.

            Z: facts and argument
            d: “Is not!”

          • david7134 says:

            Z,
            A good example of why it is impossible to exchange comments with a child is your lack of knowledge and deductive reason is your statement that Russians hacked the DNC based on the URL. One of the first things a hacker does is to disguise his URL as per book Penetration. All you are doing is voicing low level liberal talking points which are not based on fact.

          • drowningpuppies says:

            Knew the kiddiez would use the old “is not” retort.
            And then claim they used “facts” and “evidence” in their “arguments”.
            Happens every time they’re losing.
            https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

          • Zachriel says:

            david7134: your statement that Russians hacked the DNC based on the URL. {snipped fallacies of diversion}

            They did disguise it, but they screwed up the mask.

          • drowningpuppies says:

            Poor little kiddiez…

            Guccifer2.0 covered himself and the files in the digital equivalent of “Made In Russia” labels while claiming to be a Romanian. (Giving cyber-security firms, journalists and others a flimsy veil they could easily pull off and find Russian “fingerprints” behind – not realizing that what they were revealing was a layer of misdirection that would actually prevent them from considering a 3rd possibility!)

            Guccifer 2.0 – Game Over
            http://g-2.space/#4

            Keep setting ’em up and I’ll keep knocking ’em down.
            https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

        • david7134 says:

          Dp,
          It has to be bad for them as they have been told by their mama every day that they are the smartest little fellow she knows. Almost makes me feel sorry for them as you see them come to reality.

          • Zachriel says:

            david7134,

            Your signal-to-noise ratio is very low. Most of your comments are blocked by our desnarkification filter as fallacies of diversion, such as repeated chest-thumping and declarations of victory. Try adjusting your settings so there is less noise and more content.

        • Jeffery says:

          Good advice.

          I strongly recommend that my assessment and the information in this particular section just be regarded as opinion (I may have made incorrect assumptions or made a mistake with details somewhere)

          http://g-2.space/#4

          What do you bet that Mr. Mueller has evidence not available to bloggers. Unfortunately, Mr. Mueller doesn’t have a blog.

          • drowningpuppies says:

            Guess the angry little black fella from st. louis didn’t read past that paragraph.

            https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

          • Jeffery says:

            Since the disclaimer was at the end of the analysis, we guess the angry little white supremacist from Monkey’s Eyebrow didn’t read past the first paragraph.

            https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

          • drowningpuppies says:

            Then why not post the entire disclaimer instead of taking the quote out of context.

            Trying to mislead again, little fella?

            https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

          • Jeffery says:

            Here’s the entire disclaimer. Do you feel it now supports your victory dance?

            IMPORTANT: This is subject to my inference and to change if/when new verifiable information arises.

            As such, I strongly recommend that my assessment and the information in this particular section just be regarded as opinion (I may have made incorrect assumptions or made a mistake with details somewhere) and advise you to look at ALL of the information from the original sources to form a complete understanding of Guccifer 2.0 and to make your own conclusions based on what you can see demonstrated from that.

            There are other researchers whose opinions I respect that are NOT convinced that CrowdStrike were involved with Guccifer 2.0. I recommend considering ALL opinions.

            We suspect Mr. Mueller has ALL the information from original sources.

            But it is refreshing to see someone remind their readers not to trust just a single source.

            It is also refreshing that you have taken an interest in evidence.

          • drowningpuppies says:

            Good that you can see the difference.
            Now go read the evidence presented.
            It’s a more compelling and factual investigation than the regurgitation of DNC and enemedia talking points no matter what the Zzzz have claimed.
            Educate yourself.
            https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

          • Jeffery says:

            With all due respect, can you point out relevant differences between the excerpt and the entire disclaimer?

  7. jl says:

    And then there’s that crime that caused Hillary to win the popular vote and also kept her her from campaigning in Michigan and Wisconsin and hardly at all in Penn………..Those tricky Russians..

  8. Jeffery says:

    Mr. Mueller will let tRump know in due time…

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