Ford C-Max Gives Volt Competition For Most Worthless Vehicle

Ford is coming out with a vehicle in the US, which has been available in Europe for a couple of years, called the C-Max, designed to give the Toyota Prius a run (which it won’t any time soon. The Prius is refined, available in several models, and has seen its price drop to where it makes sense for consumers). It’s based on the newer style version of the Ford Focus. But, that’s not the big deal. They also plan on coming out with a version to compete with the Chevy Firestarter, er, Volt (h/t Gumball Brains)

(Fox News) While you won’t be able to get the C-Max with a conventional drivetrain, there’s an even more unconventional model on the way. The C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid goes on sale later this year with an all-electric range of up to 20 miles and a combined fuel economy rating equivalent to 100 mpg at a price of $33,745, or $29,995 after a federal tax credit of $3,750.

Woo hoo! Party on! That would barely get me to work. With the A/C or heat off. Maybe. Since it is “up to 20 miles”. At least Ford isn’t wasting enormous amounts of taxpayer funds on it.

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36 Responses to “Ford C-Max Gives Volt Competition For Most Worthless Vehicle”

  1. Gumball_Brains says:

    At least it’s cheap enough for the masses.

    Oh… wait. nevermind.

    At least they have that Obama authorized $10,000 tax credit, right? To help make things fair when buying cars?

    Oh… guess not.

    Heh.. at least this way, with people buying transportation vehicles that don’t transport them, it moves more people on to public transportation that also doesn’t get them where they want to go.

  2. Dana says:

    If that’s what Ford wants to do, that’s fine with me; if people choose to buy them, that’s their business. I’m just glad that Ford is privately owned.

  3. Gumball_Brains says:

    But, don’t forget, they are still basically forced to MAKE cars like this due to the Federally mandated CAFE standards.

    All I’ve seen is, CAFE = money losers for auto makers. Instead of focusing on vehicles that they know sells with their customers, they are forced to sell something that the Feds are forcing them to sell.

  4. Bocephus says:

    Wow – you guys really ARE ignorant haters.

    Hey numbnuts who wrote the article? Guess what – Ford took 6 BILLION dollars from the taxpayers for R&D into electric vehicles, and have yet to pay back a plug nickle.

    And, the C-Max Energi is ALSO eligible for an EV tax credit of almost $4000.

    Oops! How’s the crow taste ?

    Oh, and by the way, the tax credits? They were created, and put into effect, by George Bush and the GOP.

    Oops x 2 !

  5. Gumball_Brains says:

    Hey Obama’s dog: bo…..
    Ford did not take Stimulus monies. They asked for a loan. A loan is much different than being nationalized following a bankruptcy where creditors were stiffed.

    Also, we are not decrying Ford from doing this. They pretty much have to due to federal CAFE mandates, despite the fact that EVERYONE knows this will be a complete money loser for them.

    And your highlighting that the C-Max also receives a federal subsidy – which was mentioned in the post above – does not mean you dinged us. You are actually confirming one of the reasons why I do not like these vehicles. Feds should not be in the business of pushing purchases monetarily.

    And for your information, tax credits have been around for a VERY LONG TIME. I don’t care who pushed them, they just need to end.

    But, thanks for playing.

  6. Bocephus says:

    Obama’s dog? What, are you an idiot? At least your nick is pretty much on-target, although insulting to gumballs. Obama couldn’t run a taco stand even with consultants and a staff of 50.

    Of course, Romney is probably worse, because he doesn’t give a crap about the common man, much less the middle class. Oh, wait – he thinks the middle class is those with $200K-250K income.

    Yeah. Never mind.

    They both suck, and either way, we are all SCREWED for the next four years, whichever idiot wins, that it really doesn’t matter, does it?

    You got one moron on the one hand who couldn’t balance a budget of $10 with 10 CPAs…
    And then another who doesn’t even know what the danged middle-class is.

    Of course, getting rich at the expense of others, taking federal money and then burying companies and laying off thousands over the years, yeah, what would he care about the middle-class?

    He’d sell-out his mother for a few dollars.

    Enjoy the next four years, because no matter which idiot wins, whether tweedle-bama, or tweedle-romney, life. Will. Suck. for four years.

  7. Gumball_Brains says:

    Ok. I’m confused. If you are against Obama and Romney, then why were you defending electric vehicles like the Cmax and its subsidy? Why were you defending Obama and\or his policies?

    • Bocephus says:

      Because I’m sick of sending money to the people and countries that hate us, and would just as soon nuke us.

      Electric vehicles aren’t politics – ranting idiots have MADE it political.
      I’ve driven the Volt about 7K miles since Feb, spent about $50 on gas, and about $80-100 in electricity.
      I was spending $225-250 per MONTH on gas alone!

      If you want to be fair, then have the oil industry incentives, breaks, and credits removed – they cost us more PER YEAR, than all the Volt, Leaf, and any other EV sale tax breaks COMBINED so far. $6 billion plus per YEAR alone in oil subsidies. BP got to write off the lease on the Deepwater Horizon to the tune of $227K/day – totalling $8.28M on that ALONE! Now, how much did the spill cost the taxpayers?

      Yeah – and the EV tax incentive is sinking the US debt – please. You’re just singling one thing out, when the tax incentive so far is less than .9% of yearly budget – and that amount is over the past 3 years! Maybe $150M max since 2010/2011? Gimme a break.

      And I wasn’t defending Obama in any way – he didn’t sign the EV tax incentives into law – previous administration did.

      Look at it this way – we spend more on tax incentives yearly for child credits, than, again adding up ALL the incentives given up to now, for ALL EV vehicles.

      Why should the taxpayers foot the bill for people’s kids? WTF?
      If you can’t afford your own kids, use a damn condom.
      Why should the REST of the country pay for other people’s kids??
      If you can’t afford your own kids, good chance you’re getting even MORE support from the gov, which = even MORE money. Like $337 BILLION per year in welfare expenditures alone.

  8. The C-Max Energi isn’t available in the US yet, so it’s not eligible for any rebate.

    And now you want to defend Bush? The rebates were dumb then and they’re dumb now.

    • Bocephus says:

      It’s not a rebate; it’s a tax credit. it’s ABOVE the line, not below, so you’re NOT getting, for example, $7500 back on a Volt – it’s a tax CREDIT. Learn the difference.

      The C-Max Energi is already eligible. It’s done by battery capacity/energy. They are due out pretty soon now. Build-and-Price is already available on ford.com

  9. Gumball_Brains says:

    Bocephus. You are a confusing read. At the start, you attack Teach and commenters for pointing out the idiocy of automakers being forced to build un-sell-able EV vehicles. Teach also points out the subsidy this vehicle will get due to being an EV vehicle. You harraunge me for pointing out that it could have been eligible for a 7500 or 10K subsidy.

    And then you come off as a libertarian, while still defending the Volt.

    Either you are a rich person who took advantage of the tax-payer provided subsidy, or you soaked the tax-payers by taking advantage of the tax-payer funded lease program.

    You can call it a tax break or price break, either way it is a subsidy. Either way, it is not fair to Americans.

    Also, Teach and many commenters here do attack the subsidy program as it is just another expense added to the ever increasing debt and deficit.

    And no one claimed that these subsidies were THE source of the debt.

    And, child tax credits are not the same as a tax credit\tax break\price break\subsidy on EV vehicles. WHen you purchased the VOlt, you agreed on a price that GM had set. You paid the price either through a loan or directly. THEN, the US Govt allowed you to write off part of that cost by paying fewer taxes. Thus allowing the tax payers to subsidize your purchase.

    Child tax credits are just, JUST, a reduction in a the proposed amount of taxes that a person\family was supposed to pay. It was not the gov’t’s money to give back. It is the gov’t allowing (can’t believe I am saying that!!!) families to keep more of their tax dollars.

    Granted there are many where that credit allows them to receive money back from the Feds. We can discuss the merits of Federal welfare through the IRS, but that is something for another post. THis one is about the idiocy of EV’s and the Feds forcing automakers to build cars like this even know they won’t be sold, forcing automakers to spend millions to billions in production equalling lost revenue.

    Again, tax breaks have been around for many presidents, the $7500 and $10,000 tax rebate was instituted by Obama.

    If you are truly a libertarian, then quit yelling at us and join us. Get out of your gov’t subsidized crony mobile and help get the pure Socialist out of office. You can spurt and sputter all you want, but there is only really 2 people running for president. You can fight conservatism and get Obama elected again and allow this country to be destroyed within 1-2 years, or work with conservatism and help push Romney to enact conservative policies.

    • Bocephus says:

      That is untrue – the EV tax incentives were signed in by your precious GOP, George Bush, in 2008.

      I’ll make you a deal – get rid of the,oh, $6B in subsidies/breaks/incentives/write-offs for Big Oil, and I’ll gladly mail a check back to the fed for the incentive I got on my Volt.

      All or nothing – don’t be selective. we support lazy people, foreign countries, incentivize off-shore/foreign manufacturing, let Apple and others spend billions in overseas manufacturing and off-shore jobs…

      And you’re complaining about a total max of MAYBE $150M in tax credits???? Assuming EVERYONE was eligible for 100% of the tax credit?

      Wow – talk about small-time nitpicking….

      I noticed you all quietly ignore the $5-6B/year that BigOil gets.
      As I said… selective arguments.

      BigOil gets 30 times YEARLY the amount that ALL Volts built until NOW would’ve gotten, if they actually got 100% of the incentive.

      Give me a break – You guys are just shallow, and using it as an argument, that has ZERO merit, and conveniently ignore everything else.

  10. Gumball_Brains says:

    Welp, you just proved whose side your on. You are definitely pro-Socialist since you are unable to understand common market financial regulations.

    We are all pretty much in agreement about subsidies to private companies. However, financial laws are on the federal and state books. What you, and other socialist ideologs are referring to are resource write-offs.

    Should a company buy a quantity of product, over several years, that product loses value. The company CAN NOT sell that product years later at the original purchase price. That difference is the price write-off allowed through IRS. After more years, the product is surplussable. It can be written off as a loss.

    Any company that buys product or creates resources, is allowed this common, global financial law.

    So, if you don’t like Capitalism, please move to Cuba, Venezuela, Russia or China. Do not turn the GREAT USA in to slimepits like those places. So, if you want Socialism,,, leave.

    • Bocephus says:

      So, it’s OK to support the oil companies then? They get $5-6B/year.
      They are private companies. They’ve been on a record run of profits for a good long while.
      Why do THEY need to be propped up by the taxpayers?

      As I said – selective arguments.

      Pick a damn side already…

  11. There’s a difference between tax breaks (many of which most companies get, like for depreciation and capital investment into infrastructure) and direct taxpayer subsidies.

  12. Gumball_Brains says:

    What the hell are you talking about Bo?
    Bo don’t know!!
    Your ramble doesn’t even make sense. I tell you that we are against Socialism, and you argue further against Capitalism. And by inference, you suggest we take your side in backing Socialism and its anti-corporate\business\personal freedom beliefs.

    How can you be arguing against the small profits made by oil companies, when there is a much larger margin of profit made off of every gallon of gas sold by the government? THere is a larger profit margin for bottled water and soda. Are you going to demand their profits too?

    Do you know how expensive it is to plan 5,10,50 years out for petroleum exploration? It takes that long from planning, research, exploration and discovery, to eventually being sold on the market. That is assuming it is economically viable AT THAT TIME to be extracted and sold. In the mean time, millions could have been spent already. Do you think the government can finance oil rigs? They can’t even buy enough food, water and healthcare for our soldiers.

    But no, you want to complain about depreciation.

    Instead of claiming it is a subsidy, how about you put up a referendum and have it voted on to eliminate that write-off that ALL companies have access to. Let’s see how popular it is.

    • Bocephus says:

      OK, how about BP writing off 11.8 BILLION for the Gulf Spill cleanup?

      PICK a damn side – all or nothing. You kill off:

      Foreign aid to protect oil
      BILLIONS yearly for BigOil (who SAT on battery patents to not allow battery usage/development)

      And I’ll mail the IRS a check for what I was given.

      Deal?

      Don’t freaking be selective and pick-and-choose – that’s total BS.

      We squander BILLIONS or TRILLIONS yearly, and you idiots are complaining about $100-150 MILLION over two years?!?!?!?

      My Lord… It unreal.

      And WHY does the Oil Industry need such propping up?!?!?

      http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/29/news/companies/big-oil-gas-price-response/index.htm

      38 BILLION dollars in profit in 2011 and cutting $3-6B will HURT them?

      Please.

      Sad argument.

      Sadder = you guys all buy into that shit.

      I SINCERELY hope gas shoots to seven freaking dollars a gallon, so you all SUFFER like hell.

      You’re being shown the way, and you’re fighting to get off.

      Then MAYBE you koolaid-drinking-suckers will learn. That is what THE REST of the world pays.
      We don’t, because we spend HUNDREDS of BILLIONS on BigOil credits/incentives/subsidies, military, foreign aid, etc…

      Do a little research on what the rest of the world pays for gas, and then you’ll see that the only socialism here, is the nationalization of Oil supply.

      Taxpayer funded, and then taxpayer ripped off.

  13. Gumball_Brains says:

  14. Gumball_Brains says:

    Please don’t be so obtuse.

    That $38 billion is total among those 6 companies. And, despite the flagrant anti-oil bias of that article, it cited the REASON for that profit at that time…. higher oil prices.

    And, people will always drive, buses will always move, trucks will always carry goods. So, if the futures market price of oil goes up leading to an increase in the price of gas, yet the current cost of operating still has not increased, then a companies profit will go up.

    What happens to that profit should the price of oil go down? Or if they spend that money on investments and R&R? Or how about the hundreds of millions they give to charities and other research labs and universities?

    Do you want that money to dry up when you take the oil company profits away?

    I’m happy that you are happy with your Volt. congratulations on being able to get a car without paying full price. Just stop expecting everyone else to pay your way.

    • Bocephus says:

      So… what you’re saying… is you want a SOCIALIST system for OIL and gas, so you can drive your Hummer, but screw everything else?

      So higher oil costs = higher profits now?!?!? what kind of math is that?
      If your materials costs go up, the only way to increase profits is to either cut elsewhere, or raise prices.

      BINGO! No freaking kidding..

      Please – free market is free market – and I’m the obtuse one??

      You DESCRIBED a free market – you think Oil is the ONLY one that has r&d costs?
      and giving to charities and universities – which they STILL WRITE OFF.

      Please – admit it – you want a socialistic approach on oil, so you can have your cheap gas, and F everything else. You’ve typed it like 7 times – at least have the BALLS to back up your ideology.

      And I pay my fair share – if an industry PROFITING $150 BILLION per year amongst only the LARGEST 6 gets 20-30 BILLION in tax incentives, why the HELL shouldn’t I get a few grand?

      Can’t have it both ways – as I’ve been saying PICK a damn side!

      That’s the problem with you cowards – misdirection, misleading, verbal sparring – In the end, you’re only trying to BULLSHIT people so they don’t see your true colors.

    • Bocephus says:

      Oh, and BTW, why don’t you go ahead and show us exactly HOW MUCH Big Oil donates.

      Should be good for a laugh, compared to the quarter trillion or so the entire industry rakes in yearly.

      What you SHOULD remember, is they could give LESS of a shit about you than me, and would just as soon take your LAST dollar, and leave your ass homeless on the side of the road.

      Defend them all you want – but they could NOT care less about us if they tried.

      And as for paying my way, why not? With them dropping their tax liabilities to absurd levels in comparison to their revenues, I’d just as soon you say THANKS to the taxpayers for footing the bill for your gas, and move along.

      $7/g gas CAN’T come soon enough. I am SO going to be laughing at you!

      Then let’s see if your precious socialist oil industry have pity on you!

      I made sure to bookmark this page, so I can laugh at you later.

      Have a good day, oil-burning Socialist!

  15. gitarcarver says:

    I just want to make sure that I am clear on your stance, Bo. You are for telling a company how much they can make on a product?

    You believe making 7% on a product is too high? (I would bet you don’t sell anything in your professional life, do you?)

    You believe that oil companies should not be able to avail themselves of the same laws other companies do? (NOTE: there are 5 subsidies strictly for oil and I think you would be hard pressed to find a person on this site who does not believe those industry specific subsidies should end.)

    As you ride around in your overly environmentally harming battery powered car, how much are you paying in road taxes? Or are you saying that you feel perfectly happy and justified in living off the rest of us paying your share of road taxes?

    As for $7 a gallon for gas, you seem to think that will only apply to private citizens. Of course it will apply to trucks that move everything in this country – trains as well. It will cost more to farm and therefore you’ll pay more for food.

    You can laugh all you want to, but all you have done is shown a really bad case of ignorance.

    • Bocephus says:

      One at a time:

      (((I just want to make sure that I am clear on your stance, Bo. You are for telling a company how much they can make on a product?

      You believe making 7% on a product is too high? (I would bet you don’t sell anything in your professional life, do you?)))

      —Actually, yes, I have sold in the past, so you’d lose that bet

      (((You believe that oil companies should not be able to avail themselves of the same laws other companies do? (NOTE: there are 5 subsidies strictly for oil and I think you would be hard pressed to find a person on this site who does not believe those industry specific subsidies should end.)))

      —So what makes THEM more special than us? It’s OK for COMPANIES to avail themselves of the laws,loopholes, incentives, credits, write-offs, and subsidies but if citizens do it, then we’re socialists? as I said PICK A SIDE The example I mentioned, about BP writing off the $11.8 Billion for cleanup expenses? They wrote those off as “ordinary business expenses” leaving taxpayers with the burden. You call THAT OK?

      ((As you ride around in your overly environmentally harming battery powered car, how much are you paying in road taxes? Or are you saying that you feel perfectly happy and justified in living off the rest of us paying your share of road taxes?)))

      — And by the way, just to correct you, there’s more environmental damaging substances in the 5 million iPhone 5’s that Apple sold on the first day, and ALL the EV batteries COMBINED. Documented. Proven. Searchable. On road taxes, I pay EVERY OTHER tax, charge, and fee except for the fuel tax – and I DO still use fuel, just happens to be a paltry amount. Fed gets about $0.18/g in fuel tax, so I hardly doubt that’s a crushing blow to the deficit and federal budgets. Knock out the federal aids to foreign countries that have no business taking our taxpayer moneys, and you create a SURPLUS

      (((As for $7 a gallon for gas, you seem to think that will only apply to private citizens. Of course it will apply to trucks that move everything in this country – trains as well. It will cost more to farm and therefore you’ll pay more for food. )))

      Good – let it come. It’s the ONLY WAY to teach you oil bigots how the REST of the world lives. You have it nice and easy here, living a sheltered life. It’s PLAINLY obvious you haven’t been to other parts of the world, like the UK, or Austria, or Finland, Norway,Switzerland… Do a quick search and see what THEY pay for gas. Of course, they don’t give out TRILLIONS like idiots to foreign countries and oil cartels… $4 to $7 will raise some prices, yes indeed, though it won’t hurt quite as much as it will at the pump for drivers. trucking./freighting, the cost is distributed over bulk carrying. Gas in your car? Not so much. And I sincerely hope you happen to drive a monstrosity that gets 12MPG. Feel. The. Pain.

      (((You can laugh all you want to, but all you have done is shown a really bad case of ignorance.)))

      — Of course I have… On the one hand you claim it’s OK for oil companies to get tax benefits, and that is OK, but on the other hand, if citizens take THEIR tax benefits, they’re socialists.

      And I’m ignorant?

      Coming from you, I’d suppose it’s a compliment.

  16. Gumball_Brains says:

    Boy, you really are an ignorant Occupier\anarchist aren’t you.

    You are told repeatedly that we are against subsidies and yet you rail against us still.

    You are told that IRS write-offs are not tax breaks and do not cost Americans in taxes.

    You admit that BP PAID for a fund to help clean up the Gulf. And you admit that BP wrote that off as as an expense on their taxes. Please explain how that costs taxpayers any money out of their pocket when the funds came from BP? Please explain how this only happened with BP and no other company or any company involved in massive cleanups.

    Please explain how a citizen can take a resource tax write-off.

    Good – let it come. It’s the ONLY WAY to teach you oil bigots how the REST of the world lives. You have it nice and easy here, living a sheltered life.

    I’m guessing you really like people to live like 4th world. Why else would you be angry at success and technological improvements? No true American really cares that another country has chosen Socialism and inflicted massive fees and levies upon its citizens. Just because we don’t, does not mean that we should.

    If you dont like how nice it is here, how few taxes and penalties to success we have, then PLEASE MOVE!

    You are such a mean and angry person. Why the hate?

  17. gitarcarver says:

    One at a time:

    Actually, yes, I have sold in the past, so you’d lose that bet

    Sorry. If you believe that 7% is too much to make on a product, then you not only have not sold knowing the mark-ups, the company you sold for is out of business.

    So what makes THEM more special than us?

    They aren’t. The oil companies are using the same accounting procedures that are available to other companies.

    The example I mentioned, about BP writing off the $11.8 Billion for cleanup expenses? They wrote those off as “ordinary business expenses” leaving taxpayers with the burden. You call THAT OK?

    Was it within the law? That answer is yes. That is the problem with you and your changing position. You say “pick a side” when in fact you are the one picking sides based on what you think is “fair” or what you think is “too much.” YOU are the one switching back and forth.

    And by the way, just to correct you, there’s more environmental damaging substances in the 5 million iPhone 5′s that Apple sold on the first day, and ALL the EV batteries COMBINED. Documented. Proven. Searchable.

    There is no need to correct me as I never said anything about the iPhone. So perhaps you can stick to the actual subject instead of screaming how others are being inconsistent.

    On road taxes, I pay EVERY OTHER tax, charge, and fee except for the fuel tax

    Thank you for admitting that you don’t pay the same taxes as others. So why are you so “special” that you get a benefit of the roads that you aren’t paying for or contributing to?

    Good – let it come

    Cool. If you want to pay more for everything that is fine with me. Why don’t you start with paying a fee for the roads you use and don’t pay for? That seems fair to me.

    On the one hand you claim it’s OK for oil companies to get tax benefits, and that is OK, but on the other hand, if citizens take THEIR tax benefits, they’re socialists.

    Read much? The oil companies compete within the market. Each oil company has the same tax code as another oil company. Each oil company operates under the same tax code as all other businesses.

    That is the way the market should be set up.

    It is also contrary to the government picking winners and losers in the marketplace by using tax money to give a benefit of one product over another competing within the same market.

    Please tell us what gives the government that right? Tell us under what theory of government allows the government to decide what the portion of the market it should prop up at the expense of other portions of the same market? Is that too hard for you to understand?

    And I’m ignorant?

    Yep.

    At least on these subjects – economies, free markets, taxes, etc – you are.

    • Bocephus says:

      Um, no, Oil gets SPECIAL tax breaks, five I think?
      so no, they do NOT, as you say “Each oil company operates under the same tax code as all other businesses. ”

      and no, I do NOT pay the same amount of fuel taxes, in quantity, as everyone else, because I do NOT burn much gas. Is it fair? Of course it is! I’m not MORONIC enough to pay the exhorbitant gas fees that everyone else is willing to.

      Do I pay taxes linked to my energy use? Of course.

      Stupid argument, really. That means that you think a Prius driver ALSO does not pay their fair share.

      Then again, what say you to the driver of a V8 pickup getting 12MPG, who maybe pays more than you and I combined?

      As to BP, they agreed NOT to deduct the $11.8B, but proceeded to do so anyway.

      As to taxes/incentive/breaks – WHATEVER you want to call it.

      In the end, it was money DUE to the US, which they skirted out of paying, because of all the bullshit scams they run, and kept in perpetuity.

      And Gumball, as to leaving?

      Why would I? I LOVE it! I am paying 2 CENTS per mile in my Volt in energy to get around, using American energy, made BY Americans, FOR Americans, and consumed in an American-built Car.

      Life is freaking GREAT! I went from giving away $230-240/month to the tax-skirting oil companies, who in turn handed it to those who hate and despise us, to giving my state utility like 20 bucks per month.

      Hamtramck is making over 5000 Volts/month… US is buying about 3000 cars/month, rest are exports to Canada, EU, AU…

      Puts US workers to work, GM keeps making money to keep repaying back their debt(s).

      I fail to see what the issue is?
      There have to be THOUSANDS of tax credits/incetives/rebates on the books…
      Hundreds of billions yearly in foreign aid (seriously – our OWN country is in need of aid)
      UNTOLD BILLIONS in welfare for lazy-asses that WE have to support because they’d rather not work…
      Even child credits, for crying out loud (really? can’t afford your own kids – USE BIRTH CONTROL!)

      And the EV tax credit is the one being singled out?

      Damn.

      Ya’ll got your priorities ALL f’d up.

  18. Gumball_Brains says:

    HEY DOOFUS. Talk about not picking sides. You flip flop faster than a frog on ice.

    First you rally for Obama and taxes. THen you argue against subsidies and then praise your taxpayer funded subsidies you get. You then once again rail against foreign aid and subsidies. Yet, DEMAND that more taxes be incurred upon citizens in the form of gas taxes.

    Dude, you really must just have gotten out of the mental institution. Your doctors must be worried about not getting paid under ObamaCare, so they cut you loose. Please, go back.

    You can not, CAN NOT, make a assumed generalization about our stances from one post about one topic. But, despite that, we have already told you time and time again (I know time is a foreign idea to you.. but just scroll through the comments above and you can relive it like its new) that many commenters here are not in favor of subsidies to private industries and foreign companies. Pointing out that some companies get them does not mean we favor them like you do.

    gitarcarver is only pointing out your hypocrisy in gas taxes and highway funding. You DEMAND that we pay more, and pay for your car, but then you BRAG about not paying them. That my friend is hypocrisy. Grab a dictionary… look it up. We’ll wait.

    Back? Ok. Now go look up the definition of Socialism. We’ll wait again. Am sure you’ll find lots to like about it. We here at this site generally do not like that form of government and many here would like to return to a Republican form of limited government. Should you really like to keep Obama as your tyrannical leader, may I suggest Venezuela. That president there is friends with Obama and his policies are pretty much in line with your character.

    You admit that oil companies get the same 5 subsidies then claim its not fair to other oil companies???? Yet Socialists like you demand more and more control over oil production and increases in gas taxes. Reality may be hard for you, but that ONLY hurts the common person struggling to get to their job day after day. For you to demand they now pay 3x the price of gas, you are a callous, heartless, death-dealing, inhuman Socialist. (but then I repeat myself)

    So, for your own safety and peace of mind, please move to a country after your own heart. I now suggest N. Korea. For when you go riot following this election, and I can almost bet you will, things will not turn out well for you and your Occupy\Anarchist ilk.

  19. gitarcarver says:

    Um, no, Oil gets SPECIAL tax breaks, five I think?
    so no, they do NOT, as you say “Each oil company operates under the same tax code as all other businesses. ”

    Once again, thank you for displaying your ignorance. The oil companies get small subsidies on certain leases. That is not part of the tax code. For someone who railed about the differences in a rebate and a tax break, you have demonstrated once again that you don’t know the subject matter. Furthermore, if you had bothered to read what was said, you will find that I said most conservatives believe those subsidies should end. That belief is consistent with the idea that subsides to so called “green” companies or technologies should end.

    And therein is another display of your hypocrisy. You are happy when you benefit from what you believe is a “special” class of the market. When another class benefits, you throw a hissy fit and howl at the moon claiming others aren’t being consistent.

    The only one here not being consistent is you.

    and no, I do NOT pay the same amount of fuel taxes, in quantity, as everyone else, because I do NOT burn much gas. Is it fair? Of course it is!

    Here your hypocrisy is hanging out again. While the taxes are tied to fuel, the taxes from gas sales are used to maintain roads, bridges, etc. Those are the very roads that you drive over but yet you aren’t contributing toward them at all.

    So how is that fair? How is it that you feel that you are special and don’t have to contribute to the infrastructure that you use on a daily basis? Are you “special” somehow?

    You talk about “fairness” but admit that you aren’t paying your fair share for roads and expect the rest of us to pick up your slice of the pie.

    Clearly your definition of “fair” is “I will get what I can get, keep what I can keep, and the hell with the rest of the people who have to carry my load for me.”

    Do I pay taxes linked to my energy use? Of course.

    Nice try at shifting the goalposts. It didn’t work the last time and it isn’t working here.

    Pony up your “fair share” to keep help pay for the roads or stay off of them.

    As to BP, they agreed NOT to deduct the $11.8B, but proceeded to do so anyway.

    Then prosecute them for breaking the law. Prosecute them for breaking the agreement they made. Sue them in court for breaking the contract they signed.

    Oh wait….. there was no legal agreement or contract. That sinking sound you just heard was another one of your capricious arguments going down the toilet.

    As to taxes/incentive/breaks – WHATEVER you want to call it.

    So now you are abandoning your defense that there is a difference in a rebate and a tax break on the Ford C-Max, Volt, etc.?

    I agree that there is no practical difference in the rebate and tax break. There is a legal difference – one that goes way beyond your level – but in a practical sense, there is no difference.

    So buck up and pay up your fair share.

    See ya Skippy.

  20. Bocephus says:

    Umm, no, I don’t think so. So you think the gas tax is the only thing in the country paying for roads?

    Wow – you’re pretty much an idiot… guess I don’t pay anything else, like my property taxes, sales taxes, etc… yeah. it’s only the 18 cents per gallon. Yeah. And the Fed pays 100% of all the roads in my state, from that 18 cents. out of nearly FOUR DOLLARS.

    As I said – cut THEIR tax breaks, and I’ll cut mine. Hell, I’ll even mail the IRS a $7500 check to reimburse it.

    It’s COMPLETELY hypocritical to say it’s OK for the oil companies to NOT pay their fair share, seeing as it’s all normal business tax law, but I can’t take any credits or breaks, seeing as it’s ALSO in the laws.

    If Romney can pay 14% taxes on 20 MILLION, I don’t feel guilty IN ANY WAY for taking a lousy $7500.

    So it’s OK for lazy asses to live off the gov’t, yet drive a new Lexus to the Section 8 housing office to get their housing paid and pick up welfare check and food stamps, but F** me if I take ONE $7500 tax credit when I’ve been WORKING since I was 18, and CONTRIBUTING now at 35% yearly.

    Yeah.

    I don’t think so – I feel NO guilt, and I’m sure ALL of you take tax breaks/incentives/credits, just like everyone else does.

    Unless you whiners take NO tax credits, ya got NO position to stand on.

    NONE.

  21. Gumball_Brains says:

    but I can’t take any credits or breaks, seeing as it’s ALSO in the laws.

    Then that is your own fault. If by law you are allowed to take a tax credit, and you don’t, then don’t come whining about a lack of fairness. That’s your own stupidity.

    And again, if you are referring to THE SAME tax credits than a company can get for resource depreciation…. then there’s not point in arguing with you. Do you really think you should be able to apply a resource depreciation to your life? Well, Ok, on second thought, I can see that as applying to you.

    If Romney can pay 14% taxes on 20 MILLION, I don’t feel guilty IN ANY WAY for taking a lousy $7500.

    That was a capital gains tax. He had already paid high taxes on that money before he invested it. The 14% is on top of what he already paid. Why do you claim to want fairness yet demand that others pay much higher taxes, or even yet double taxation. I bet you are in favor of a death tax as well.

    And, for the umpteenth time,… we are not bemoaning that you took a credit on your car that was legally owed to you. We are bemoaning that it was offered by the FEDS in the first place!!!! God, get over yourself.

    You know, gitarcarver, I’m starting to think this person transposes his guilt and feelings of self-consciousness upon others whom he feels the need to denigrate or bring down to his level. Again I ask, why the hate?

    This must be johns dad.

  22. Bocephus says:

    OK, then riddle me this… Why are you bemoaning this one, when there’s so many others?
    And probably quite a few of them are worthless and gain, or attempt to gain, nothing. At least the EV tax credit is an attempt to try to get vehicles using alternative energy on the road. Rmoney/GOP cronies want more drilling, more drilling. Where’s the Oil from the USA going? Overseas. Look it up. They get it out, and then send it, or refine then send, because they make more money out of it over there, because it isn’t state-subsidized. Then everyone complains when the oil WE consume gets imported, refined, and then sold at $4-5/g.

    What’s the choice?

    Me? I do think I pay my fair share, thanks.
    My wife and I paid over $40K last year in taxes. $45K and change deducted, and then a $4k refund, so $40-41K

    My wife is a public school teacher. Every damn year, she ends up spending between $1500-2500 per year for shit the school supposedly hasn’t got money for (but the school board superintendant makes $300K+/YR).I can’t even DEDUCT most of that shit, because there’s little or no allowances.

    So far, just in the past 3Y, I’m in the hole $4-6K just there.
    No, she didn’t have to do it, but it allows her to be EFFECTIVE. Damn school even gives out a card w/ 500 copy count on it, and once you’ve used up your 500 copies for the year, you’re done. I actually went out and got her a used copier, and a friend found a friend who set up a maint/service plan for it cheaply.

    And as for capital gains, don’t even get me started. That’s MORE shit where the rich get richer,a dn us poor schmucks continue to foot the bill for them. I gotta WORK for my money, and pay up 35-40% of it, they just sit on their ass, and only pay 14% of it.

    You guys are barking up the wrong tree.

    Playing semantics with me, suggesting I need mental help, etc.. That just shows how truly out of touch you guys are. You should be freaking PISSED that all this shit goes on, and instead, you’re detailing explanations to me, while tossing insults, about how it’s OK for oil companies to get billions, and how I’m an @sshole for taking a one-time $7500 tax credit.

    Man – no wonder this country is going to shit. We’re all SO f^cked if Rmoney takes office, it’s not even believable.

    Not that Obama is a much better choice.

    Man – we are f*cked any way we look at it.

  23. gitarcarver says:

    Umm, no, I don’t think so. So you think the gas tax is the only thing in the country paying for roads?

    You should have stopped at the more truthful statement of “No, I don’t think.”

    The fact of the matter is that the taxes on fuel are the driving engine in road construction and you don’t pay your “fair share” of road construction. You were the one who started this thing of commenting on people and companies who in your mind don’t pay a “fair share.” When that same standard is applied to you, you squeal like a stuck pig.

    It’s COMPLETELY hypocritical to say it’s OK for the oil companies to NOT pay their fair share, seeing as it’s all normal business tax law, but I can’t take any credits or breaks, seeing as it’s ALSO in the laws.

    Thank you for proving my point that you rail against others for not paying their “fair share,” but you feel perfectly comfortable not paying anything at all. Can you please explain how not paying anything fits the definition of “fair share” in your mind?

    If Romney can pay 14% taxes on 20 MILLION, I don’t feel guilty IN ANY WAY for taking a lousy $7500.

    I just want to make sure that I understand your point here. You are equating Romney paying the legal amount of taxes because his income results from his taking his money and risking it on investing in companies and you taking money back from the American people in an effort to skew the market. You think those two things are similar?

    Maybe Romney was wrong and we do need to keep “Big Bird.” That way you can learn “one of these things is not like the others…..”

    So it’s OK for lazy asses to live off the gov’t, yet drive a new Lexus to the Section 8 housing office to get their housing paid and pick up welfare check and food stamps, but F** me if I take ONE $7500 tax credit when I’ve been WORKING since I was 18, and CONTRIBUTING now at 35% yearly.

    Wow. You really have a hard time following the discussion, don’t you? What has been argued against is not that you took the tax credit, but that the tax credit exists at all. The tax credit is a direct governmental intervention into the market and that is wrong. Furthermore, every Volt that is sold loses money for GM. You read that right. The Volt costs GM money. With the US government and the US taxpayer the major investor in GM, selling a product at a loss is counter to the fiduciary duty of a company to maximize profits for its stockholders.

    The tax credit on EV’s should be discontinued.

    I don’t think so – I feel NO guilt, and I’m sure ALL of you take tax breaks/incentives/credits, just like everyone else does.

    Of course you don’t feel guilt. “Guilt” requires a moral compass or at least the ability to understand right and wrong. With you, “right” is “I want more” and “wrong” is “they have what I want.”

    Gumball….

    You know, gitarcarver, I’m starting to think this person transposes his guilt and feelings of self-consciousness upon others whom he feels the need to denigrate or bring down to his level. Again I ask, why the hate?

    Jealousy is an ugly mistress, isn’t it? There is no logic to this person’s opinion at all. He is just railing against those using the long discredited idea of “fairness.”

    This must be johns dad.

    Or john’s mother. Maybe john can shout up the stairs from the basement and ask Bo for some pizza rolls.

  24. gitarcarver says:

    OK, then riddle me this… Why are you bemoaning this one, when there’s so many others?

    There is no riddle. The reason has been stated by Gumball and myself several times. You just have failed to read, understand or respond to the reason.

    The reason is that the rebate is targeted toward a certain section of a market. It is the government injecting itself into the market without reason. It is the government propping up an segment of the market to the disadvantage of others within that market.

    Got it now?

    Me? I do think I pay my fair share, thanks.

    Yet as we have shown, your “fair share” is not based on equality but on what you feel is “fair.”

    That standard is inherently “unfair.”

    And as for capital gains, don’t even get me started. That’s MORE shit where the rich get richer,a dn us poor schmucks continue to foot the bill for them. I gotta WORK for my money, and pay up 35-40% of it, they just sit on their ass, and only pay 14% of it.

    Once again, you demonstrate a tremendous lack of knowledge on the subject matter. First, you have the same opportunity to invest as anyone else. There is a tremendous risk in investing, however. There are many people who have invested in companies or ideas who have lost it all and get nothing back at all.

    Secondly, the capital gains tax is based on the long proven and one of the foundational beliefs of this country that individuals are better suited to know what to do with their money – including how to spend or invest it – than the government. That foundational belief has been proven to be true over and over again.

    I would much rather have someone investing in a company with the risk / reward be on their hands rather than the government “investing” with no reward to the taxpayer and no accountability for the failure of their choices.

    I would rather me investing my money in companies (which I do) than the government taking my money and investing it in companies they want to.

    If you can’t see that as a fundamental part of individual liberty and freedom, I suggest you move to another country such as Cuba where the government takes all it wants all the time. You’ll be happier there.

    You guys are barking up the wrong tree.

    We aren’t barking at all. We are telling the truth and your childish and misplaced anger at your failure in life and knowledge is coming to the forefront. You haven’t made a single cognitive argument in this discussion. You haven’t even been consistent in your positions.

    All you have relied on is the nebulous “Mommy, that isn’t fair!”

    Man – no wonder this country is going to shit.

    I agree. It is going downhill because of childish arguments such as “that’s not fair!” and “he makes more than I do!”

    Envy and jealousy are powerful emotions and seldom benefit individuals or society. I suggest you work on resolving those issues before trying to condemn others.

  25. Gumball_Brains says:

    Maybe Romney was wrong and we do need to keep “Big Bird.” That way you can learn “one of these things is not like the others…..”

    Now that is funny!!!!!

    This must be johns dad.

    Or john’s mother. Maybe john can shout up the stairs from the basement and ask Bo for some pizza rolls.

    OMG.. that is hilarious.

  26. Gumball_Brains says:

    At least the EV tax credit is an attempt to try to get vehicles using alternative energy on the road.

    Boy, talk about flipping. You are now in favor of tax breaks? oh, right, but not for others.

    about how it’s OK for oil companies to get billions, and how I’m an @sshole for taking a one-time $7500 tax credit.

    Again, your blind hate has made you “blind” to what we continue, over and over, try and push through your thick skull. WE DO NOT BEMOAN YOU TAKING THE LAWFUL CREDIT. As we do not hate on Romney like you do that he has taken his lawful credits and paid his lawful taxes on his income. WHAT WE CONTINUE TO ARGUE AGAINST IS THE EXISTENCE OF THE TAX CREDIT.

    My wife is a public school teacher. Every damn year, she ends up spending between $1500-2500 per year for shit the school supposedly hasn’t got money for

    And, what does that have to do with the topic of this post? And, why do you think it is her responsibility to buy things that the school should? maybe if she didn’t fork over her own money, she would have more take home pay?

    And, no one is making her work there. Oh, and I think there is a tax credit for the buying of work supplies.

    And, if you can’t see the difference between a true Commy Marxist having another 4 years, and a weak Republican who knows how to get jobs and balance budgets (granted he prolly wont)…. then you might want to ask johnny if it is safe before you walk outside by yourself.

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