Religion In Schools

I have a question: "Why is praying and religion in schools bad?"

I have asked libs on several forums, and even have sock puppetted at the DU. So far, bupkus for a real answer.


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3 Responses to “Religion In Schools”

  1. Seth says:

    I have long contended that what we’re seeing here, on the part of the left, is a formula we’ve seen before in Marxist states: Take G-d out of the equation because He stands between the people and the absolute authority of the state, take guns out of the peoples’ hands so the state has all the firepower, enact PC in all dialogue, gestures and deeds to keep the people consistant with the “party line”.

    Given the fact that liberals seem to be pushing us hard in a socialist direction and that American Communist Party members come from among the ranks of liberals, well…

  2. So it is about fear of God, and wanting to replace religion with the Nanny State?

  3. what a few wise (and otherwise) guys believed says:

    Patrick Henry, Delegate to the 2nd Continental Congress, Congressman and five-time governor to Virginia; turned down nominations as Secretary of State and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court:

    “Amongst other strange things said of me, I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of their number; and, indeed, that some good people think I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory; because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics; and I find much cause to reproach myself that I have lived so long and have given no decided and public proofs of my being a Christian. But, indeed, my dear child, this is a character which I prize far above all this world has, or can boast.”,1796 letter to his daughter ,S. G. Arnold, The Life of Patrick Henry, 1854, p.250

    “This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”… Henry’s Last Will and Testament from Patrick Henry Memorial Foundation, Red Hill, Brookneal, VA

    “Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!- I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!” speech at St. John’s Church 1775

    “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians.. — It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. — A true patriot as well as a genuine leader must always take the higher ground of God’s law when confronted with the evils of man’s law. — Government is not the enemy, for it is ordained of God. The enemy to freedom is tyrannical government that presumes to take the place of God.”

    George Washington: “Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity…let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason, and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.” …”It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.”.. Washington’s Farewell Address, Sept. 17, 1796

    James Madison, chief architect of the Constitution, signer of the Declaration, Secretary of State, President of the United States:

    “We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind to self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.”

    “The belief in God All Powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the World and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities to be impressed with it.” In a letter to Frederick Beasley

    “The real wonder is that so many difficulties should have been surmounted, and surmounted with a unanimity almost as unprecedented as it must have been unexpected. It is impossible for any man of candor to reflect on this circumstance without partaking of the astonishment. It is impossible for the man of pious reflection not to perceive in it a finger of that Almighty hand which has been so frequently and signally extended to our relief in the critical stages of the revolution.” January 11, 1788, Federalist Papers No. 37 — And from Federalist Papers No. 43 “…The first question is answered at once by recurring to the absolute necessity of the case; to the great principle of self-preservation; to the transcendent law of nature and of nature’s God, which declares that the safety and happiness of society are the objects at which all political institutions aim, and to which all such institutions must be sacrificed.”

    “While we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess, and to observe, the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to them whose minds have not yielded to the evidence which has convinced us.” From “A Memorial and Remonstrance” 1785, delivered to the general Assembly of the State of Virginia.

    John Adams, member of the Continental Congress, 2nd President of the United States, Vice President To the United States, Commissioner to France, US Ambassador to England, letter to Benjamin Rush:

    “The Christian religion…is the brightness of the glory and the express portrait of the character of the eternal, self-existent, independent, benevolent, all powerful and all merciful creator, preserver, and Father of the universe, the first good, first perfect, and first fair. It will last as long as the world. Neither savage nor civilized man, without a revelation, could ever have discovered or invented it. Ask me not, then, whether I am a Catholic or Protestant, Calvinist or Arminian. As far as they are Christians, I wish to be a fellow disciple with them all.” Adam’s Dairy, July 26, 1796

    “We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion…Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.” Oct. 11, 1798, address to the officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Mass

    Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress, signer of the Declaration, US Minister to England and France, oldest Founding Father:

    “History will also afford frequent opportunities of showing the necessity of a public religion…and the excellency of the Christian religion above all others ancient or modern.”

    ” I have lived a long time, Sir, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that ” except the Lord build the House they labor in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest. I therefore beg leave to move- that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and hat one or more Clergy of the city be requested to officiate in that service.” – speech to Constitutional Convention, June 28, 1787

    “A Bible and a newspaper in every house, a good school in every district- all studied and appreciated as they merit- are the principle of virtue, morality, and civil liberty.”

    Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration, President of the United States:

    “God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have removed their only firm basis; a conviction in the minds of men that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever.” from Query XVIII of his notes on the State of Virginia

    “Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage. We humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners. Save us from violence, discord, and confusion, from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people the multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues. Endow with Thy spirit of wisdom those to whom in Thy Name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that through obedience to Thy law, we may show forth Thy praise among the nations of the earth. In time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust to fail; all of which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.” – March 4, 1805, A National Prayer for Peace.

    “If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who have lived under tyranny.”

    “No power over the freedom of religion…(is) delegated to the United States by the Constitution.”

    Fisher Ames, delegate to the Constitutional Convention and co-writer of the First Amendment: … “the Bible should always remain the principle text book in America’s classrooms. Its morals are pure, its examples captivating and noble…the Bible will justly remain the standard of language as well as of faith.”

    John Jay, delegate to the Continental Congress, co-writer of the Federalist Papers along with Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, Governor of New York and original Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court:

    “Providence has given our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty, as well as privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Oct. 12, 1816, in a statement, The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry Johnston

    “In forming and settling my belief relative to the doctrines of Christianity, I adopted no articles from creeds but such only as, on careful examination, I found to be confirmed in the Bible… At a party in Paris, once, the question fell on religious matters. In the course of it, one of them asked me if I believed in Christ? I answered that I did, and that I thanked God that I did.”…a letter to John Bristed, April 23, 1811

    “.. The Bible will also inform them that our gracious Creator has provided for us a Redeemer, in whom all nations of the earth shall be blessed; that this Redeemer has made atonement ‘for the sins of the whole world’ and thereby reconciling the Divine justice with the Divine mercy has opened a way for our redemption and salvation; and that these inestimable benefits are of the free gift of grace of God, not of our deserving nor in our power to deserve.” …May 13, 1824 in an address to The American Bible Society.

    Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration, member of Continental Congress, founder of 5 universities, in a “Defense of the Use of The Bible in Schools”, 1791:

    “Surely future generations wouldn’t try to take the Bible out of schools. In contemplating the political institutions of the United States, if we were to remove the Bible from schools, I lament that we could be wasting so much time and money in punishing crime and would be taking so little pains to prevent them.”

    “The only foundation for…a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.”

    Daniel Webster: “Our ancestors established their system of government on morality and religious sentiment. Moral habits, they believed, cannot safely be entrusted on any other foundation than religious principle, not any government secure which is not supported by moral habits…Whatever makes men good Christians, makes them good citizens.” from speech at bicentennial celebration of the Pilgrims landing at Plymouth Rock, Dec. 22, 1820

    “God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.”

    John Quincy Adams, President of the United States:

    “The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected, in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity… The United States of America were no longer colonies. They were an independent nation of Christians.” July 4, 1821 from The Pulpit of the American Revolution by John Wingate Thornton 1860

    “The Declaration Of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth and laid the cornerstone of human government upon the precepts of Christianity.” July 4th, 1837, An Oration Delivered Before the Inhabitants of the Town of Newburyport, at the 61st Anniversary of The Declaration of independence

    “Duty is ours; results are God’s. The first and almost the only Book deserving of universal attention is the Bible. I speak as a man of the world to men of the world; and I say to you, Search the Scriptures! The Bible is the book of all others, to be read at all ages, and in all conditions of human life; not to be read once or twice or thrice through, and then laid aside, but to be read in small portions of one or two chapters every day, and never to be intermitted, unless by some overruling necessity. In what light so ever we regard the Bible, whether with reference to revelation, to history, or to morality, it is an invaluable and inexhaustible mine of knowledge and virtue. It is no slight testimonial, both to the merit and worth of Christianity, that in all ages since its promulgation the great mass of those who have risen to eminence by their profound wisdom and integrity have recognized and reverenced Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of the living God.” “… Posterity- you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.”

    1751, the Pennsylvania State Assembly called for the forging of a bell to commemorate William Penn’s original charter of the state. They included instructions requiring that a scripture verse be included on the bell: Leviticus 25:10, “Proclaim Liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof.”

    Noah Webster, Founding Father, scholar, author of the first and still respected American Dictionary:

    “The religion which has introduced civil liberty, is the religion of Christ and His apostles, which enjoins humility, piety and benevolence; which acknowledges in every person a brother, or a sister, and a citizen with equal rights. This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free constitutions of governments.” 1832, History of the United States, Noah Webster

    “The command of God is ‘ He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in fear of God.’ 2 Sam. 23:3. This command prescribes the only effectual; remedy for public evils. It is an absurd and impious sentiment, that religious character is not necessary for public officers…But surely as there is a God in heaven who exercises a moral government over affairs of this world, so certainly will the neglect of the divine command, in the choice of rulers, be followed by bad laws, crimes, waste of public money, and a thousand other evils. Men devise and adopt new forms of government; they amend old forms, repair breaches, and punish violators of the constitution; but there is, there can be, no effectual remedy, but obedience to The Divine Law.”

    John Marshal, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court: “The American population is entirely Christian, and with us Christianity and religion are identified. It would be strange indeed, if such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it.”…letter to Jasper Adams, May 9, 1833.

    The stubborn facts above can be found in “America’s God and Country,” by William Federer.

    “On September 26, 1642 the guidelines that would govern Harvard University, our nation’s first college, were established. They read, in part, “Let every student be plainly instructed, and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternal life (John 17:3), and therefore to lay Christ in the bottom, as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdom, let every one seriously set himself by prayer in secret to seek it of him (Proverbs 2:3).” The motto of Harvard was “Christi Gloriam” (Christ be glorified) and the college was later dedicated Christo et Ecclesiae (for Christ and for the Church). The founders of Harvard believed that “All knowledge without Christ was vain.”‘…from The Presidential Prayer, March, 31, 2002.

    Alexis de Tocqueville, French author and philosopher of renown who came on extended stay in America to find out the secret of the success of the American Independence:

    “Religion in America takes no direct part in the government of society, but it must be regarded as the first of their political institutions; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief. I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion- or who can search the human heart?- but I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of their political institutions.” from Democracy In America, 1835, de Tocqueville

    Abraham Lincoln: “We have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand, which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us.” – March 30, 1863, Proclamation Appointing A National Fast Day

    “Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution of the United States as our Fathers made it inviolate. The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

    Harry Truman: “the basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul. I don’t think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don’t have a proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a…government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.” Feb. 15, 1950, address to the Attorney General’s Conference

    Stalin: “America is like a healthy body and its resistance is three-fold: It’s patriotism, its morality and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within.”

    Alexander Solzhenitsyn: “European democracy was originally imbued with a sense of Christian responsibility and self-discipline, but these spiritual principles have been gradually losing their force. Spiritual independence is being pressured on all sides by the dictatorship of self-satisfied vulgarity, of the latest fads, and of group interests.”

    Malcolm Muggeridge: “Freud and Marx … undermined the whole basis of Western European civilization as no avowedly insurrectionary movement ever has or could, by promoting the notion of determinism, in the one case in morals, in the other in history, thereby relieving individual men and women of all responsibility for their personal and collective behaviour.”

    Joseph Sobran: “The wartime alliance between the United States and the Soviet Union ended with ten Christian countries falling to Communist tyranny, with persecution on a scale Nero would have blanched at – a persecution liberals didn’t, and still don’t, care to talk about… sought the same sort of social order American liberalism seeks –a secularist, materialist society in which power is centralized and the state controls economic life. When Americans finally awoke to the evil of Communism, liberals had harsher words for Joe McCarthy, who cost a few people their government jobs, than for Joe Stalin, who cost tens of millions of people their lives. … If Communism was liberalism in a hurry, liberalism is Communism in slow motion. Where Communism smashed, liberalism erodes. The end result is the same: a soulless society in which liberty perishes and tradition is forgotten. There is ample testimony that liberalism and Communism are essentially interchangeable, and much of that testimony comes from liberals themselves.”

    Mother Teresa: “ me the nations with legalized abortion are the poorest nations. The greatest destroyer of peace today is the crime against the unborn child.”

    Martin Luther King, Jr.: “Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man’s sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.” — “Science investigates religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge which is power religion gives man wisdom which is control.”

    Dennis Prager: “As is true of most the Left’s values, this ideal of favoring the little guy in a courtroom runs directly counter to a basic Judeo-Christian value. Exodus 23:3 expressly prohibits it: “Do not favor the poor man in his grievance.” – “The Left hates inequality, not injustice”

    C.S. Lewis: “Only liberal societies tolerate Pacifists. In the liberal society, the number of Pacifists will either be large enough to cripple the state as a belligerent, or not. If not, you have done nothing. If it is large enough, then you have handed over the state which does tolerate Pacifists to its totalitarian neighbor who does not. Pacifism of this kind is taking the straight road to a world in which there will be no Pacifists.” – “Why I am not a Pacifist”

    Pope John Paul II: “If an attitude of skepticism were to succeed in calling into question even the fundamental principles of the moral law, the democratic system itself would be shaken in its foundations…. The United States possesses a safeguard, a great bulwark, against this happening. I speak of your founding documents: the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights. These documents are grounded in and embody unchanging principles of the natural law whose permanent truth and validity can be known by reason, for it is the law written by God in human hearts.” – Oct. 1995

    Osama Bin Laden: “I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped.” – Feb. 1998

    P.J. O’Rourke: “Hell, this country was founded by religious nuts with guns. Who does Bill Clinton think stepped ashore on Plymouth Rock? Peace Corps volunteers?”

    Harry Moyle Tippett: “The Pilgrims came to America not to accumulate riches but to worship God, and the greatest wealth they left unborn generations was their heroic example of sacrifice that their souls might be free.”

    Ronald Reagan: “You and I are told we must choose between a left or right, but I suggest there is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an up or down. Up to man’s age-old dream — the maximum of individual freedom consistent with order — or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism. Regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would sacrifice freedom for security have embarked on this downward path. Plutarch warned, “The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits.” — “From time to time we’ve been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule. That government by an elite group is superior than government of, by, and for the people. But if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else? All of us together, in and out of government, must bear the burden.”

    “A thankful heart is not only the greatest virtue, but the parent of all other virtues.” – Cicero

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