UAW Holds Talks With Biden Admin About EVs, Reduced Emissions

These are people who do not actually own or run the auto manufacturers talking about increasing the cost of vehicles for consumers, probably in a manner which increases the pay of the auto workers (which would, in reality, most likely mean replacing auto workers with more automation, along with moving plants to Mexico)

UAW president holds White House talks on vehicle emissions

United Auto Workers (UAW) President Rory Gamble held a virtual meeting last week with a top White House environmental official as the Biden administration moves to reverse the rollback in vehicle emissions rules adopted under then President Donald Trump.

A spokesman for the Detroit-based union confirmed Gamble met with White House domestic climate change adviser Gina McCarthy and other members of the Biden Administration.

“It was a very open and positive dialogue,” Gamble said in a statement, praising the Biden administration’s “commitment to regular dialogue with the UAW.”

The Biden administration has started discussions with the automobile sector about reducing greenhouse gas emissions, McCarthy told Reuters last week.

McCarthy also spoke recently to General Motors Chief Executive Mary Barra about the Detroit automaker’s aspiration to halt sales of all gas- and diesel-powered vehicles by 2035, the automaker confirmed.

In the grand scheme of things, do consumers actually care? Most people are pretty happy with the fuel economy of vehicles right now. Almost no one mentions “carbon emissions” as a reason to purchase a vehicle. They want affordable and specific features. But, someone is telling the LA Times differently

Letters to the Editor: People want electric cars, but dealers don’t want to sell them. Let’s change that

To the editor: Your piece on electric vehicle demand states that “consumers aren’t there yet” and that traditional automakers have “struggled to sell electric cars.”

False. Most of the time, a traditional auto dealership will attempt to dissuade you from buying their EVs. They aren’t struggling to sell their EVs; rather, they are struggling not to sell you their EVs because they make virtually nothing on parts and service.

And, if the automakers really wanted to sell EVs, they’d build more compelling products.

In reality land, not that many people want to buy an EV. Honda tried this with their Clarity, expanding a nationwide rollout from West Coast and NE states. Sure, there were some sales, but, not what you’d think, to the point you can only get a Clarity on the west coast. Not even in states like NY, NJ, and Mass. Most people do not want the hassle of them, or the cost. Even hybrids are sluggish. You can get a CRV hybrid for not much more than a regular CRV, but, sales are probably like 50 regular to every 1 hybrid. And we’re talking in a high tech area like the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area.

Automakers make what sells. There really isn’t much of a demand for plugins or pure EVs. Used hybrids often sit. Parts and service is still need for the components of an EV. Still needs maintenance. You don’t make money making products that most people are neither demanding nor buying.

Meanwhile, the world’s leading EV manufacturer, Tesla, can’t make its vehicles fast enough. Tesla is building new factories on three continents to satisfy a steadily growing demand. They make EVs that people want: beautiful styling, exceptional performance and an unparalleled safety record.

Who’s buying them? Upper middle class to rich. Who often have another vehicle for taking a long trip. Most people cannot afford $38K for a base model Tesla. Much less the over $120K for a regular one.

Furthermore, the analyst quoted states that most households can’t afford EVs. Numerous EVs on the market today sell for less than the average price of a new car. And, used EVs are flooding the market.

Yes, but they are tiny things that do not go far or fast. And aren’t worth squat when you go to sell them. Residual values on hybrids are rather low, because used car buyers are worried about the used batteries.

Perhaps one day EVs will be viable. I’m not against them. They are nowhere close, and, again, most people are not asking for them. Can they make an Accord with the same features that gets the same range for around the same price? Where you can recharge in close to the same time as filling a tank?

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18 Responses to “UAW Holds Talks With Biden Admin About EVs, Reduced Emissions”

  1. Dana says:

    Our esteemed host wrote:

    In the grand scheme of things, do consumers actually care? Most people are pretty happy with the fuel economy of vehicles right now. Almost no one mentions “carbon emissions” as a reason to purchase a vehicle. They want affordable and specific features.

    They’ll care when they have to sit for 45 minutes or longer at a ‘charging station’ to juice up.

    They’ll care when they have to spend $2,000 on an electrician to install the circuit for a charging station at home, and then have to pay a whole lot more in their sparktricity bills.

    They’ll care when an ice storm knocks out the power for three days, and they’re stuck at home because their car is out of power.

    They’ll care when their Chevy Dolt is six years old, and they have to replace the entire battery pack for how many thousands of dollars?

  2. Dana says:

    Some letter writer to the Los Angeles Times said:

    Most of the time, a traditional auto dealership will attempt to dissuade you from buying their EVs. They aren’t struggling to sell their EVs; rather, they are struggling not to sell you their EVs because they make virtually nothing on parts and service.

    If the dealership at which Mr Teach works sells electric vehicles at all, I’d have to ask: has Mr Teach ever tried to not sell a plug-in electric to someone who wanted one?

    Most car salesmen work at least partially on commission. Why would a commission salesman try to not sell something?

    And, if the automakers really wanted to sell EVs, they’d build more compelling products.

    So, in the very next paragraph, after combitching that dealerships don’t want to sell electric vehicles, that the ones which are for sale aren’t very “compelling.” https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_yahoo.gif

  3. Hairy says:

    Teach
    Every year EV technology improves and you seem to ignore tgat
    Apparently you think that technology especially battery technology will not continue to improve

    • Jl says:

      “EV technology improves..”. Which of course means it’s nowhere near what fossil fuels already provide. Why use a technology that’s inferior to what’s being used now?

    • Dana says:

      The Hirsute One wrote:

      Every year EV technology improves and you seem to ignore tgat
      Apparently you think that technology especially battery technology will not continue to improve

      And perhaps all of those hundreds of millions of buyers who so desperately want plug-in electric vehicles are just waiting for that improved technology to arrive. Who knows, but the fact is that they aren’t selling well right now.

      Neither the technology nor the infrastructure for plug in electric vehicles is mature yet. Perhaps one day they will be, but that day has not arrived.

    • Est1950 says:

      Hairy 365,000,000 cars in the USA drawing 240V and 25 Amps to charge day and night is going to be provided HOW?

      I know lets built 1 billion more wind turbines. Lets fill up fly over country with solar panels and windmills.

      Well for one living in fly over country the elitists of the left living in those ginormous cities who look around their concrete jungle and believe the rest of the world is dying because their little piece of it is one shitty place to live. To those of you who have no clue you can go fuk yourselves from one living in the land of the FREE.

      How about we set your backyard on FIRE SNOW!!! How about that. You know you can’t put all of us in here!!!!!

      What?

      They can’t hurt me. I have no one that I love.

      Lines from the Hunger games. The Left is like President Snow. The fascist fantasy state in a movie that wants to round people up, put them in a game and watch them murder each other to keep fly over country in line. Fly over country exists to keep the Capitol fed. They are overseen with troops and threatened with an amazing lack of freedoms and ability to have a life beyond what the Capitol dictates to them.

      Sure it’s a movie but the parallels are quite similar to today. Fortunately it is only a movie. But as I look at a Capitol that is barricaded by WALLS THAT DON’T WORK and have 20,000 Federal Troops garrisoned in a Three square mile area. As I listen to Elwood espouse the lefts position everyday that the right is delusional and mentally ill. As I listen all across the internet to the left desperately trying to crush the right what I am seeing is the right growing more resolved.

      And that frightens me for this country.

      • Est1950 says:

        The Black Secretary of Defense has ordered a stand down of the Armed forces so they can root out all racists and all extremists.

        Are you fuking kidding me. Show me anywhere in the constitution where it is illegal to hold extremist or racist views. It is only a crime if you ACT ON THOSE VIEWS to the determent of others. Yet here we have a Sec. of Def. willing to purge the ranks of the military of people who may have told their buddy they believe the election was stolen.

        This.

        IS.

        Getting.

        SCARY..

        We no longer have a constitution in this country. The left has shredded it and after 8 years of obama pissing on it they have started right up where they left off. And that is scary and that will lead to open revolt and trust me Elwood. A large Majority of the military lives and works in Flyover country.

      • Dana says:

        Mr 1950 wrote:

        Hairy 365,000,000 cars in the USA drawing 240V and 25 Amps to charge day and night is going to be provided HOW?

        In 2018, there were 279.1 million registered vehicles in the US, so your 365 million number is a bit high.

        However, you got the amperage wrong. This model requires an 240 volt, 40 or 50 amp circuit, with a NEMA 14-50 receptacle. There are other chargers available, but their electricity requirements are similar.

        There are 120 volt chargers available, but they take forever to fully charge an electric vehicle.

        Of course, not everybody even has a secure place where he can mount an electric car charger. I’m fortunate; I have the shop in which to do it. In my previous home, I didn’t. My daughter’s house in Lexington has a single 120 volt line going to her garage; I’d have to install a 220 circuit for her.

        Even for the people who do have secure garages, how many of them have 220 service in the garage? One thing this would do is be an Electricians Full Employment Act; how many people have the knowledge, skill and tools to install that kind of circuit. I know what wiring is needed; how many other people do, without looking it up? And if they have to look it up, do you really want them installing it themselves? https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif

        • Est1950 says:

          The EV industry faces a daunting task.

          There are some really good studies show many things.

          The average price of an EV car to be considered for purchase is 36,000. Dollars. This number is becoming realistic.

          The average wait time citizens require to be willing to own an EV car is 31 minutes. That is the time they are willing on average to wait for a full charge. This is possible, but it requires an expenditure of 56,000 dollars to buy the charging unit the size of a large refrigerator not to mention the cost of installing it.

          191 miles is the average distance at which an EV car must travel before needing a 31 minute charge. Currently the distance is possible the charging stations are not available even at home unless your willing to spend 56000 dollars.

          Four Minutes. This is the average time it takes the regular citizen to get to a gas station. Right now the average time to get to a charging port is 34 minutes.

          32,000 Stations. This is the number of charging stations needed spread equally across the USA to reach the 4 minute standard.

          4 is the number of different types of charging plugs depending on the EV you drive. Not ANY charging station has all 4 types of charging available.

          350,000 dollars. This is the cost to set up a charging station with 6 posts, that can charge 12 cars at a time. 32,000x 350,000 dollars is around 8 billion dollars.

          This is not something ANY ONE company wants to undertake, and then there is the grid that uses AC or Alternating current. An EV charges by DC although with a built in converter it can charge using a standard 115 outlet but then it takes 10 hours give or take to fully charge an EV Vehicle.

          In short the EV vehicle is here to stay. The technology infrastructure is NOT in place to support its widespread adoption and the AGW whackos who want to be rid of Fossil fuels will find that they are incapable of generating enough electricity to service all the vehicles plus provide power to homes, businesses and infrastructure.

          In short, EV might have come a long way but the infrastructure to support it is in its infancy and threatened by the AGW crowd.

  4. drowningpuppies says:

    Unions such as the American Pipefitters and Plumbers and American Steel workers endorsed Joey.

    First thing Joey did to repay them for their support was to cancel the XL pipeline ccosting 11,000+ workers their jobs.

    “Hey, you f@cked up. You trusted us!”
    — Otter

    #BelieveTheLie!
    #UnityMotherf@ckers!
    Lolgf https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

    • Professor hale says:

      Union leadership are democrat party hacks. There was never any doubt which direction the union dues were going to flow.

    • Dana says:

      Richard Trumka, president of the AFL-CIO, who endorsed the Dummkopf from Delaware, strongly criticized President Biden for revoking the cross-border license for the Keystone XL Pipeline, because it’s throwing thousands of union workers out of work. Sorry, Mr Trumka, but if you didn’t know that that would happen, then you either weren’t paying any attention at all, or you are just plain stupid.

      Those two possibilities are not mutually exclusive; both can be true.

      If you are a gas or oil worker, and you voted for Joe Biden, don’t complain: you did it to yourself!

  5. Elwood P. Dowd says:

    Corporate execs are making more and more each year, yet their outrageous pay raises haven’t caused corporations to eliminate execs or for them to be replaced by automation.

  6. Hairy says:

    Teach apparently a lot if your data is out of date
    1 according to Cars.com sept 27, 2017 hybrids now depreciate less than ice cars
    2 the base price of a Tesla mod 3 after tax incentives is about $10 grand less than the average price ($40000+) of a new car
    3 after 5 years a model 3 Tesla will cost less than a Toyota to own and operate NO FUEL COSTS!! NO OIL CHANGES!!

    • gitarcarver says:

      Hairy / John continues to show his ignorance.

      1 according to Cars(dot)com sept 27, 2017 hybrids now depreciate less than ice cars

      While that might have been true in 2017, it is not longer true:

      A September, 2020 article in cleantechnica(dot)com write:

      iSeeCars is a website that specializes in collecting data about the new and used car markets. In its latest report, it says electric cars in general experience far higher depreciation after three years than conventional cars — 52% versus 39.1% for sedans, 39.7% for SUVs, and 34.3% for trucks. However, Tesla vehicles outperform the market. The Model S depreciates 36.3% at the end of a 3 year lease while the Model X depreciates 33.9.% over the same period.

      Furthermore, in an update to the cars dot com article Hairy sites, they now say that the cars depreciate at the same rate.

      2 the base price of a Tesla mod 3 after tax incentives is about $10 grand less than the average price ($40000+) of a new car

      Not only is this misleading, but it is untrue.

      The “average car” price in the US is $36,718 according to CNBC. But that figure includes all cars with all levels of trim – not just the average “base” Mod 3 S Tesla. The Tesla Mod 3 S base model starts at $37,990. Most people know that $37,990 is greater than $36,718.

      However, while Hairy touts the “tax incentive” for Teslas, that incentive ended in January 2020 with the sale of Tesla’s 200,000th vehicle. In other words, the cheapest Tesla is still more expensive than the average US car.

      3 after 5 years a model 3 Tesla will cost less than a Toyota to own and operate NO FUEL COSTS!! NO OIL CHANGES!!

      I am surprised that Hairy believes that the Tesla runs on fairy dust and unicorn farts. His shouting “no fuel costs” is clearly inaccurate.

      It is curious that Hairy cuts off the cost analysis at year five. However, Tesla does not have a recommended schedule of maintenance which makes comparisons difficult.

      However, according to autoguide(dot)com, a yearly full service for a Tesla is $475.

      According to Consumer Reports, the following are the maintenance costs per year for non-Tesla cars:

      3-year-old (2017 model): $83
      5-year-old (2015 model): $200
      10-year-old (2010 model): $458

      (The difference and lower prices for non-Tesla cars may be due to labor costs which are significantly higher for Teslas.)

      This means that a 10 year old car has less maintenance costs than a Tesla from year 1 to 10.

      And while these are maintenance costs, according to 2020 JD Power and Associates, Teslas rank last out of 30 brands tested in reliability which means Teslas sit in the shop more than other cars.

      Hairy is leaving out the elephant in the room, however.

      The Tesla battery pack (not the drive train – just the battery) is warrantied for 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. That is similar in a limited way to car companies who warranty entire drive trains for 100,000 miles and even more for some companies.

      Out of warranty costs show a staggering difference. An out of warranty replacement battery installed on a Tesla runs approximately $16,000 – $20,000 with the part costing more than $8000. To rebuild a car engine averages $4000 (parts and labor.) To replace an engine with new one averages $4000 – $8000 (depending on models and number of cylinders.)

      Hairy has always hated facts and this is another case where “talking trollish points” are wiped away by facts.

      Hairy hates facts, but then again, all the left has is hate.

      • drowningpuppies says:

        Well Hairy (aka Johnnie Retard) has been confined to a nervous hospital in Queens since Trump was elected in 2016.

        So there’s that. https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif

        #TrustUs
        #BelieveTheLie
        Lolgf https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

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