If All You See…

…is a wonderful low carbon sailboat sailing the trackless seas raised by carbon pollution, you might just be a Warmist

The blog of the day is Fire Andrea Mitchell, with a post on California decriminalizing underage prostitution.

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12 Responses to “If All You See…”

  1. Dana says:

    Underaged prostitution should certainly be illegal, and it remains so, despite California’s adjustments to the law. The real question is whether prostitution itself, assuming all parties are of legal age, should be illegal.

    Me? I have a difficult time with the concept that something which is perfectly legal to do if no money changes hands can be made illegal if done for pay.

  2. Rev.Hoagie® says:

    Who gets to choose what age is “underage”? A moslem?

  3. gitarcarver says:

    The bill does not legalize “underage prostitution.”

    The bill still still makes it illegal for adults to have sex for pay with children under the age of 18. (Which answers Rev’s question of the definition of “underage.”)

    The bill is designed to help law enforcement identify and bring back kids that are pimped out by adults. The police can take these kids into protective custody now where before they could not. The johns and the pimps are still on the hook for prostitution / solicitation charges, but the kids are not.

    That makes some sense if the goal is to get child prostitutes off the streets and back into better situations.

    To show how bad the problem is, the average age of a child prostitute is 13 years old and they are ever present in Los Angeles, Sand Francisco and San Diego. (There’s a theme there as well.)

  4. captainfish says:

    so, a 16 year old who engages in prostitution will not be arrested. while the John will. That same girl, once she turns 18 will then be arrested for it.

    Police can still take the kid in to “protective custody” even without arresting the under age kid. The police do not have to arrest. It’s a stupid change to the law.

    It is akin to saying that underage kids cannot be arrested for murder.

  5. gitarcarver says:

    so, a 16 year old who engages in prostitution will not be arrested. while the John will. That same girl, once she turns 18 will then be arrested for it.

    Yep. Because an 18 year old has more chances and opportunities to get away from a pimp who is also a trafficker in children.

    Also an 18 year old can make a contract, which someone under the age of 18 cannot. We also generally make a distinction between crimes committed by people under the age of 18 and those over the age of 18.

    Police can still take the kid in to “protective custody” even without arresting the under age kid. The police do not have to arrest.

    That’s correct. The theory which seems to be supported by data is that a kid runs away from home or is kidnapped and then forced into prostitution by other adults. The child is not making a conscience decision to enter into selling themselves but rather is forced into by adults.

    It is akin to saying that underage kids cannot be arrested for murder.

    Once again, we seldom impose the same sentence on murder committed by a child as an adult who is convicted of murder.

    The question that has to be answered is “if you arrest a 13 year old for prostitution, what happens next? Do you make them pay a fine? How do they get the money to do that? Even if the fine is paid, where do they go when released? Do you put them in jail? With adults? They can’t rent an apartment or a place to live. So where do they go?

    If a kid runs away from whom or is abducted and forced into prostitution, do you really think they should be beaten up by the system as well as the adults who abused them by forcing them into that life?

    I am not sure that this law is the solution, but it attempts to stop making victims of children by the system who were already victims of other adults.

  6. david7134 says:

    Get the government out of our lives. They have no business making prostitution illegal. They also have no business regulating drugs and preventing people from getting the medications that they need or want. Funny how the rest of the world does not have problems with these issues, but we do and as a consequence lose a sizable amount of freedom.

  7. gitarcarver says:

    They have no business making prostitution illegal.

    We aren’t talking about prostitution between consenting adults here david. We are talking about the forced exploitation of children.

    They also have no business regulating drugs and preventing people from getting the medications that they need or want.

    Other nations regulate drugs as well david and you should know that.

    Funny how the rest of the world does not have problems with these issues, but we do and as a consequence lose a sizable amount of freedom.

    You think the rest of the world doesn’t have issues with drug abuse and child prostitution? Or human trafficking?

    What world are you living in because it ain’t the same one the rest of us live in.

    While it is easy to couch this as a “loss of freedom” issue, the fact of the matter is that when someone steals my goods because they need a fix because doctors like you pver-perscribed, I have a stake in that game. When people are killed on the roads because they are intoxicated, I have a stake in the game. Your “freedom” ends at my nose. If you want to go out and harm yourself, go for it. The moment you harm me, my family or my freedom, we are going to have problems.

  8. david7134 says:

    gc,
    how do you know it is not consenting? as to the drug issue, get out of the country and see how others live.

  9. gitarcarver says:

    how do you know it is not consenting?

    You think that kids at the age of 13 want to be prostitutes?

    Clearly you haven’t worked with kids of that age who have gone through what you are advocating.

    as to the drug issue, get out of the country and see how others live.

    Reflecting on some of the keynotes of the UNDOCÕs annual report on illegal substance trends, we are given a snapshot of the global substance abuse problem:

    * The UN predicts approximately 230 million people have consumed illegal drugs (one or more times) since 2010.

    * Nearly 30 million people worldwide are considered Òproblem drug users,Ó and 200,000 people die from substance abuse annually.

    * According to the UNDOC, there are somewhere between 120-220 million marijuana users in the world, making it the most popularly consumed illegal drug in the world.

    * Amphetamines (stimulant drugs) like cocaine, meth and stimulant prescriptions are the second most popularly abused drug worldwide.

    See also: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3333877/Drug-map-reveals-substances-country-addicted-Scotland-hooked-cocaine-Iceland-smokes-cannabis-opiates-rife-US.html

    Now of course, you really didn’t address the issue that your “freedom” to use whatever you want should not impact my freedoms, but we’ve been down this path before.

    I get it david, you believe that you should do whatever you want regardless of the effects of your actions on me and others.

    That’s not “freedom,” in any sense of the word. That’s anarchy.

  10. Liam Thomas says:

    I realize Im a johnny come lately on your debate but I have to wonder?

    Police in Copenhagen say drug consumption rooms, where users can inject heroin and cocaine without fear of arrest, have made a dramatic difference to the city.

    Denmark became the latest place to introduce the concept one year ago, following in the footsteps of a handful of other European countries, as well as Australia and Canada.

    The UN numbers represent 3 percent of the worlds population have consumed at least once since 2010 Illegal drugs…..does their report include the actual usage in countries where drugs are not considered ILLEGAL?

    I ask only because drug use is legal in a whole lot of countries and its also not even regulated in many, many countries….Like places like Somalia etc. So this 3 percent figure actually seems awfully low if your trying to point out how many people actually use drugs…because it seems the word Illegally throws a monkey wrench into the whole set of figures used.

  11. gitarcarver says:

    A little research on the drug consumption rooms show that they only hide the problem and not address the issues with drugs.

    I will say this again…… if a person wants to take drugs, that’s fine with me as long as their choice doesn’t affect me, my family and my freedoms.

    Generally speaking, there is no evidence that heroin users are what one would consider a “productive member” of society. Getting high is not conducive to a job. Even the snippet of the article you cite shows that crime around the consumption room is still high as addicts need to do something to get money to support their habit.

    So the question becomes “what do we do to address the ills that come with drug use?”

    What do you do with a driver of a semi that is high?

    What do you do with a person working on machinery in a factory who is high off of prescription medication that “doctors” like david have overperscribed?

    What gives people the right to endanger my life, my family’s lives and my property because they made a stupid choice?

    If people want to sit in their homes and get high, good for them. That’s their choice. The moment they step out into the world and affect me and my freedoms, I have the same right to defend my freedoms as they have to exercise theirs.

  12. Liam Thomas says:

    OH im personally against all drugs except Marijuana……Thats not the issue….I was simply pointing out that your link seemed extremely low given what Ive seen around the world and I have spent the better part of 35 years WORKING around the world….33 countries to be exact and one more to go before retirement.

    I was simply implying that drug use has to be way higher then 3 percent of the worlds population……

    Libertarians have this annoying habit of letting anything be legal as long as it doesnt affect anyone else…and while I can basically agree with that….in principal I cannot….

    We adopted a black 12 year old black girl(24 years ago) who was forced into prostitution when her mother was a drug addict and prostitute and left her alone for days at a time with no food and no money……..As a result My wife who was her teacher asked for foster rights when she was taken away from the mother and ultimately we adopted her when she was 14 and it was her choice to do so……the scars still remain and its been a struggle to keep her going down a modestly acceptable path……….

    We are no saints….We are just ordinary people….My wife would toke Marijuana daily if it was legal….yet we can drink to excess every day and get up and go to work and as long as we are sober were fine…..

    A very complex problem….but ultimately I think the real drug usuage in the world is more like 15 percent……..not 3 percent from what I see all around the world.

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