NY Times Wonders If Classic Rock Songs Should Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues

It’s pretty understandable that the opinion section of the NY Times wants to mostly avoid what happened in Virginia and other states, leaving it to a few stories and “analyses” in the straight opinion sections, because they would then have to expose themselves to criticism for being an insane political party. Sort of Republican Ross Douthat tries with Republicans Schooled the Left in Virginia and sorta Republican Brett Stephens goes for Why Democrats Are In Trouble. There’s something about Michelle Wu winning in Boston, some whining about the Supreme Court, even a piece on changing clocks twice a year. But, nothing from the liberals about their Tuesday losses. Instead, we have this bit of moonbattery from Jennifer Finney Boylan

Should Classic Rock Songs Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues?

Cancel Culture AlligatorA long, long time ago — I can still remember how that music used to make me smile.

“American Pie,” Don McLean’s generation-defining ballad, was released on vinyl 50 years ago this October. The first time I ever heard it, I was with my sister in our kitchen. I was 13. I was eating a bowl of Alpha-Bits cereal. It came on the radio, and my sister — only a year older but centuries cooler — told me, “This is the greatest song ever.”

It’s impossible for me to hear that song now without thinking of her.

But when Patrisha McLean, Don McLean’s ex-wife, hears “American Pie,” she isn’t reminded of golden moments of adolescence or even the classic age of rock ’n’ roll memorialized by the song. Ms. McLean says she was subjected to years of emotional and physical abuse from her former husband.

Was all this necessary? Liberal minds are just weird. They have to link everything to their hardcore politics. I love Paul Simon stuff, even though he’s a hardcore socialist. Roger Waters is an avowed socialist, and an Israel and Jew hater, but, I still love Pink Floyd. Devo used a John Hinkley, Jr poem to create a song (not a particularly good one), but, I like other Devo stuff.

The past several years have seen a reassessment of our country’s many mythologies — from the legends of the generals of the Confederacy to the historical glossing over of slaveholding founding fathers. But as we take another look at the sins of our historical figures, we’ve also had to take a hard look at our more immediate past and present, including the behavior of the creators of pop culture. That reassessment extends now to the people who wrote some of our best-loved songs. But what to do with the art left behind? Can I still love their music if I’m appalled by various events in the lives of Johnny Cash or Elvis or Jerry Lee Lewis? Or by Eric Clapton’s racist rants and anti-vaccination activism?

Of course, there is no easy answer here. Even Ms. McLean doesn’t think “American Pie” should be banned from playlists, like some other pieces of classic rock produced by disgraced musicians. Gary Glitter’s “Rock and Roll (Part 2),” more popularly known as “The Hey Song,” for instance, was pulled from airplay after the musician was convicted of possession of child pornography and a series of sex abuse offenses against young girls.

Instead, Ms. McLean told me, she feels we should reconsider how we elevate these artists. It’s the tarnished creators, she said, that we should not celebrate. In other words: The problem with “American Pie” isn’t the song. It’s the singer. “American Pie” remains a great song. In 2016 the Library of Congress selected the original recording for preservation in the National Recording Registry.

In other words, we should Cancel the people, not their music. Or, you could just mind your own business and stop being such a Karen.

For a lot of baby boomers, it’s painful to realize that some of the songs first lodged in our memories in adolescence really need a second look. And it’s hard to explain why younger versions of ourselves ever thought they were OK in the first place.

Or, maybe cancel the songs, too.

I want to live in a world where I can be moved by art and music and literature without having to come up with elaborate apologies for that work or for its creators.

Then move on, don’t listen. Don’t watch. Don’t force your views on everyone else.

It was Don McLean, in “American Pie,” who asked if music can save our mortal souls. My guess is probably not. But it can help us to time travel, and not only to our adolescent past. Maybe reconsidering those songs, and their artists, can inspire us to think about the future and how to bring about a world that is more inclusive and more just.

Yup, cancelling. Hey, let’s go after Jimmy Buffett, a reliable Democrat, because he changes the line in Margaritaville to say “it’s some woman’s fault” when he does it live.

Now do all the rap songs about bitches and hoes, treating women in a degrading manner.

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54 Responses to “NY Times Wonders If Classic Rock Songs Should Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues”

  1. Steve says:

    Bring on the Purity Tests!

    This is where all socialist / communist ideologies eventually lead.

  2. Professor Hale says:

    FINALLY! A leftist idea I can get behind. Time to Finally cull all that trash the boomers think is so great.

  3. Elwood P. Dowd says:

    Besides leading a failed coup, the amoral ex-President Brandon J. Trump has been credibly accused of assaulting at least 20 women. I propose we NOT add him to Mt. Rushmore, “erect” statues in his honor or name any buildings or airports after him. But just because he’s a serial assaulter doesn’t lessen his “value” to America! He shouldn’t be cancelled just because of treason, his hairdo and his vile, amoral behavior.

    Speaking of sex outside of marriage… It would be like cancelling the unmarried Taylor Swift because of her history of serial boyfriends. But it’s understandable if you hate her saccharine muzak.

    Poor Paula Deen shouldn’t be kicked off TV just for using the N-word.

  4. Jl says:

    Have proof of the failed coup, J? Of course you don’t…

    • Elwood P. Dowd says:

      Jill typed: Have proof of the failed coup

      So you actually believe it was a successful coup??

      Did you also trek to Dealey Plaza to await the return of JFK, Jr?

      • Jl says:

        So in other words you have no proof of your alleged “coup”. J again has zero proof of his assertions, and the sun will rise in the East..

        • Elwood P. Dowd says:

          Jill dear,

          The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. The failed coup is still being investigated, and Traitor Don is using every resource to keep the gov’t from the evidence. What is he hiding by trying to block access to the records (telephone, text, emails, meetings) around the planning of the events on Jan 6?

          Donnie wanted the election overturned, agreed? One of his “superstar” attorneys, Sid Powell, was working to get the SC to block the certification of the election. Powell said the January 6 riot at the Capitol could have caused a delay which would have allowed Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito time to stop the certification of Joe Biden’s election victory—but that chance was lost when Nancy Pelosi reconvened Congress to complete the process.

          It was part of the elaborate scheme by tRump and attorney John Eastman (who, with tRump spoke to rally the troops on Jan 6) to prevent the certification of the vote (which tRump lost by over 7 million).

          1. VP Pence, presiding over the joint session, begins to open and count the ballots, starting with Alabama.

          2. When he gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of electors, and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other States. This would be the first break with the procedure set out in the Electoral Count Act.

          3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th Amendment — is 454. There are at this point 232 votes for
          Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.

          4. The Democrats claim that 270 is required. Pursuant to the 12th Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the matter to the House, where the “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote . . . .” Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote. President Trump is re-elected there as well.

          5. Assuming the Electoral Count Act process is followed and, upon getting the objections to the Arizona slates, the two houses break into their separate chambers, we should not allow the Electoral Count Act constraint on debate to control. That would mean that a prior legislature was determining the rules of the present one — a constitutional no-no. So someone – Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, etc. – should demand normal rules (which includes the filibuster). That creates a stalemate that would give the state legislatures more time to weigh in to formally support the alternate slate of electors, if they had not already done so.

          6. The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission – either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court. Let the other side challenge his actions in court. The fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the ultimate arbiter. We should take ALL of our actions with that in mind.

          The assault on the Capitol Building (Hang Mike Pence!) was one such action.

          Recall Traitor Don lobbying the GOP state legislatures to establish their own slate of electors and to be ready to vote to support him? Recall Traitor Don threatening the Georgia Secretary of State unless he “found” 12,000 votes? Recall Traitor Don advocating that VP Pence do the “right thing” and refuse to certify the vote? Recall Traitor Don urging his troops to head to the Capitol and “fight”?

          It was a coup attempt, but one that failed.

          Jill – Do you believe that tRump actually won the election?

          • drowningpuppies says:

            Who knew Rimjob, dipshit that he is, is still pushing the dem conspiracy theories without any real evidence, just dem talking points.
            Getting as old as it’s relevance to the disastrous Brandon administration and his dem cohorts.

            #LetsGoBrandon
            #FJB
            Bwaha! Lolgf https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

  5. drowningpuppies says:

    Soon to be classic.
    LGBFJB

    https://tinyurl.com/7yzkekc2

    Bwaha! Lolgf https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

  6. Professor Hale says:

    ” Ms. McLean says she was subjected to years of emotional and physical abuse from her former husband.”

    I suspect that it doesn’t really matter which of her husband’s songs gets played to have that reaction. The song wasn’t about her. I also suspect that no matter how innocently pristinely someone lives their life, there is someone somewhere who hates their guts. Just look at the treatment Kavanaugh got at his confirmation.

  7. stevew says:

    Don’t tell her about “Hey Joe” and “I’d Love to Change the World” she’d certainly lose her mind.

  8. Zachriel says:

    William Teach: Liberal minds are just weird. They have to link everything to their hardcore politics.

    Patrisha McLean didn’t mention politics, but personal abuse.

    William Teach: Don’t force your views on everyone else.

    She didn’t. She expressed her views.

    Professor Hale: That and boxcars.

    There is nothing in her speech that suggests mass murder.

    William Teach: In other words, we should Cancel the people, not their music.

    Generally, we should celebrate what people got right without forgetting what they got wrong, especially if they struggled to rise above their baser natures. Even then, there are limits: Hitler building the autobahn doesn’t merit a statue.

  9. Zombies are Cool says:

    The Walking Zombie Zachriel said: Patrisha McLean didn’t mention politics, but personal abuse.

    in response to quoting the author saying: William Teach: Liberal minds are just weird. They have to link everything to their hardcore politics.

    What the Op wrote was: Was all this necessary? Liberal minds are just weird. They have to link everything to their hardcore politics. I love Paul Simon stuff, even though he’s a hardcore socialist. Roger Waters is an avowed socialist, and an Israel and Jew hater, but, I still love Pink Floyd. Devo used a John Hinkley, Jr poem to create a song (not a particularly good one), but, I like other Devo stuff.

    Not even mentioning McClean. The article quoted Ms McClean. Not the OP. I read this as the OP of the piece being quoted and not Patrisha McLean.

    This is a classic example of a leftist throwing out the baby with the bathwater.\\\

    William Teach: Don’t force your views on everyone else.

    She didn’t. She expressed her views. …….WHY are you obsessing over Ms. Mclean in this article? The author of this article being highlighted was certainly attempting to persuade people to cancel music the left does not like because that goes counter to their revolution.

    Should Classic Rock Songs Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues? Well, the only ones toppling statues are leftists so my statement of persuading people to cancel music the left does not like holds.

    Generally, we should celebrate what people got right without forgetting what they got wrong, especially if they struggled to rise above their baser natures. Even then, there are limits: Hitler building the autobahn doesn’t merit a statue.

    Human beings from the dawn of man to this morning get things right and wrong. Just ask Joe Biden and his withdrawal from Afghanistan. Should Biden Be Canceled?

    • Zachriel says:

      Zombies are Cool: WHY are you obsessing over Ms. Mclean in this article? The author of this article being highlighted was certainly attempting to persuade people to cancel music the left does not like because that goes counter to their revolution.

      Trying to persuade someone is not the same as forcing them. Nor does the author even have the power of a high office where it could be argued that her words are coercive.

      Zombies are Cool: Human beings from the dawn of man to this morning get things right and wrong.

      That’s right. Lincoln and Robert E. Lee were important figures in history deserving of study. So, celebrate Lincoln for his part in freeing the slaves, as opposed to Lee, whose primary accomplishment was leading a disastrous rebellion against the United States as part of an effort to preserve slavery, and where statues in his honor were erected during the height of Jim Crow and the Lost Cause narrative.

      “Of course, there is no easy answer here.”

      • Zombeis are Cool says:

        Then Walking Dead Zach why are you even here attempting to put words in the OP’s mouth that he never said?

        That’s not persuasion. That’s coercion. the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.
        “our problem cannot be solved by any form of coercion but only by agreement(force of words)” Remember the left says that speech is assault. You assaulted the OP with your words by saying he said something he never did and then pivoting to racism immediately.

        I see your type all the time on the internet. You make every effort to adjudicate words to fit your own narrative that was never said or implied. Vausch is very good at this and so is Ben Shapiro.

        Which as you so eloquently pointed out pivots immediately to tearing down statues rather than the OP’s supposed obsession with Ms Mclean.

        • drowningpuppies says:

          Zombie: Zach why are you even here attempting to put words in the OP’s mouth that he never said?

          Maybe the KiddieZ feel an incessant need to continually embarass themselves here and on other blogs.

          #LetsGoBrandon
          #FJB
          Bwaha! Lolgf https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

        • Elwood P. Dowd says:

          Dead Zombei Stumbling doesn’t know the difference between persuasion and coercion. Typical.

          The article cited by mr Teach weirdly compared tearing down public statues to criticizing entertainers for their private life foibles, as if a Don McClean song on the radio is equivalent to giant statue honoring the traitor General Lee in the public square.

        • Zachriel says:

          Zombeis are Cool: That’s coercion. the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

          What threat?

          Zombeis are Cool: “our problem cannot be solved by any form of coercion but only by agreement”

          That states exactly the opposite of coercion. The author doesn’t argue for force, but persuasion.

          • Zombies are Cool says:

            “Speech is a true threat and therefore unprotected if an objectively reasonable person would interpret the speech as a serious expression of an intent to cause a present or future harm.

            You say that statues should be torn down which is done by racially motivated people using violent means to destroy public property.

            This is the classic definition of SPEECH that is a threat. You could not leave well enough alone with one lie about what the author of this blog was saying you then had to pivot to perceived violence to end your ideas of racism.

            Now you are back to trying to interpret what the author was saying vs what the Op of this blog was saying about what the author was saying. Your intention continues to be to deflect and obfuscate(render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible) the OPs intended thought and replacing it with your own meaning.

          • Zachriel says:

            Zombies are Cool: You say that statues should be torn down which is done by racially motivated people using violent means to destroy public property.

            Uh, no. We have never advocated violent means to destroy public property.

      • david7134 says:

        z,
        Tell us what part Lincoln had in freeing slaves.

        Then tell us how Lee, who was fighting for freedom, established Jim Crow and the Lost Cause narrative, that is supposed to be myth. But then you must believe in the Myth of the Moral Union. Look up Black Laws and find the beginning of Jim Crow. Find a black person that owned a business above the MasonDixon line, you can easily find them below the line, look up Melrose plantation.

        I can see you are a victim of CRT.

        • Zachriel says:

          david7134: Tell us what part Lincoln had in freeing slaves.

          The Emancipation Proclamation reframed the Civil War and set the agenda for eventual abolition.

          david7134: Then tell us how Lee, who was fighting for freedom, established Jim Crow and the Lost Cause narrative, that is supposed to be myth.

          We said Robert E. Lee led “a disastrous rebellion against the United States as part of an effort to preserve slavery.” His image was later used as a symbol of Jim Crow and the Lost Cause narrative.

          david7134: Find a black person that owned a business above the MasonDixon line . . .

          Seriously? Alrighty, then. Start with Frederick Douglass’ The North Star.

          • david7134 says:

            The EP did not free one slave, except in DC. Lincoln maintained slavery in any state that desired the institution.

            The rebellion as you phrase it was not a rebellion. It was a desire for freedom that was legal as taught at West Point. We still desire that freedom.

            Lost Cause is crap. Just as the moral union is crap. The fact is Lincoln killed over one million people.

            Lee’s image was not used for any racist purpose.

            Fredrick Douglas was a jerk speaker. Almost all northern states outlawed black ownership, part of the black laws.

            You have been taught wrong.

          • Elwood P. Dowd says:

            david,

            You have been fighting this war for a long, long time…

            We fully understand today’s neoConfederate stance that the Rebel Alliance formed to advance freedom! and not to maintain the Southern states’ reliance on slavery and white supremacy. But your stance is false as shown by documents from the slave states and statements by Confederate leaders.

            The Lost Cause myth describes slavery as beneficial to the slaves, civilizing the survivors and teaching them of God’s grace.

            Georgian Clement Evans, a war veteran, “If we cannot justify the South in the act of Secession, we will go down in History solely as a brave, impulsive but rash people who attempted in an illegal manner to overthrow the Union for our Country.”

            After the rebellion was quelled, the United States of America granted pardons, clemency and general amnesty to the rebels and their leaders in a true show of liberal, patriotic grace. On December 25, 1868, Andrew Johnson declared “unconditionally, and without reservation, … a full pardon and amnesty for the offence of treason against the United States, or of adhering to their enemies during the late civil war, with restoration of all rights, privileges, and immunities under the Constitution and the laws …

            Did you know the Confederacy refused to recognize captured African-American troops as POWs. If the men were determined to be escaped slaves they were returned to their owners or were used as forced labor.

            The Lost Cause Mythology:
            1. The rebellion was not about slavery.
            2. Slavery was a positive experience for slaves.

            CSA Veep Alexander H. Stephens in 1861:

            “Our new government…, its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.”

            3. The rebels lost because the northerners had more men and resources.
            4. Rebels were heroic, brave, gallant, even saints.
            5. Robert E. Lee became a cult hero.

  10. Zachriel says:

    david7134: The EP did not free one slave, except in DC.

    As the Union army advanced, the slaves were freed under the Emancipation Proclamation.

    david7134: The rebellion as you phrase it was not a rebellion.

    Oh, gee whiz. It was all about slavery and white suprmacy. How do we know? Because they wrote it down and voted on it.

    Declaration of Causes of Seceding States.

    Mississippi: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery

    Georgia: For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

    Texas: We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

    • david7134 says:

      Z,
      Wrong on every point.

      • drowningpuppies says:

        David,

        Perhaps the KiddieZ and Rimjob feel an incessant need to continually embarrass themselves here and on other blogs.

        #LetsGoBrandon
        #FJB
        Bwaha! Lolgf https://www.thepiratescove.us/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cool.gif

        • david7134 says:

          Pups,
          In a way I feel sorry for them. They are infused with white guilt, if white. Or being constantly told they can’t measure up if brown. Sad.

      • Zachriel says:

        david7134: Wrong on every point.

        Are you saying we misquoted the declared Causes of Secession? Hmm. Let’s check:

        A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union, Adopted by the Delegates of the people of Texas, in Convention assembled on the 2nd day of February, A. D., 1861; AND Ratified by the people by a vote of 46,000 to 13,000, on the 23d day of February, A. D., 1861.
        https://digital.sfasu.edu/digital/collection/EastTexRC/id/3841

        It says it right there, in some bizarre perversion of the U.S. Declaration of Independence: “We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.”

        Mississippi’s declaration that “Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery.”
        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN3tXmxUEAElTP3?format=jpg&name=large

        See also,
        https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states

    • gitarcarver says:

      As the Union army advanced, the slaves were freed under the Emancipation Proclamation.

      When Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation after the Battle of Sharpsburg / Antietam, which was fought in northwestern Maryland, why weren’t the slaves in Maryland freed? (Slaves in Maryland were not freed until the passage of the 13th Amendmentin December of 1865, well after the war had ended.)

      Oh, gee whiz. It was all about slavery and white suprmacy. How do we know? Because they wrote it down and voted on it.

      The causes of the Civil War were complex, to say the least. Most people in the South viewed the was necessary to keep the Federal government out of their business. While it can be argued and is probably true that slavery was a major issue within states rights, if you think the sharecropper, small farmer, miller, store owner, etc in the South went to war to fight for slavery, you have never read their writings and are only relying on statements from politicians.

      If the war was about slavery, then why was there relatively little desire to “free the slaves” in the North? For the North, the war was much more about preserving the Union.

      It is a very complicated issue as to why people joined to fight on either side, but to say it was one issue is simply not backed by the people of the day.

      • Elwood P. Dowd says:

        It seems best to believe the writings from the seceding Confederate states.

        Not too that slavery was the cornerstone of the Southern economy and Southern way of life. If one wants to believe that slavery was a minor reason for the rebellion, go ahead.

        But ending slavery was the death knell for the South.

        • david7134 says:

          Jeff,
          I would put you in your place with that stupid statement. BUT, you called Kyes wife a whore.

          Let’s go Brandon.

        • gitarcarver says:

          It seems best to believe the writings from the seceding Confederate states.

          I agree. And when you read those comments in context, none of them say what you think.

          If one wants to believe that slavery was a minor reason for the rebellion, go ahead.

          Perhaps you missed this:

          While it can be argued and is probably true that slavery was a major issue within states rights, if you think the sharecropper, small farmer, miller, store owner, etc in the South went to war to fight for slavery, you have never read their writings and are only relying on statements from politicians.

          The overriding cause for the Civil Was was States Rights. Of those States Rights, the number one thing that the South wanted to protect was slavery. As I said, the small farmer, the share cropper, the merchant and small businessman didn’t own slaves. It makes no sense that these men voluntarily went to war against their own self interests.

          The country and the people within it had much different attitudes than today. As upwards of 90% of the population had never traveled more than 20 miles from their home, allegiances were to their home state and not Federal government.

          To not understand that and to understand the context and atmosphere of the time does a great disservice to history and to the people of the time.

          • Elwood P. Dowd says:

            the sharecropper, small farmer, miller, store owner, etc did not secede, the states did.

          • gitarcarver says:

            the sharecropper, small farmer, miller, store owner, etc did not secede, the states did.

            The states did not fire a shot.

            The people of the state did. That would be the the sharecropper, small farmer, miller, store owner, etc.

            I realize that it is hard for you to admit mistakes. But saying the Civil War was only about slavery is about as big of an American history mistake as one can make.

          • Zachriel says:

            Mississippi, Causes of Secession: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery

      • Zachriel says:

        gitarcarver: When Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation after the Battle of Sharpsburg / Antietam, which was fought in northwestern Maryland, why weren’t the slaves in Maryland freed?

        Political expediency. Lincoln thought freeing all the slaves would strengthen secessionist sentiment in Maryland and other border states. Nor was it clear he had that power. The Emancipation Proclamation was a stretch as it was, but justified based on military expediency.

        His advisors said that the Proclamation would be perceived as weakness. Instead, it changed the entire tenor of the War. Everyone now understood that slavery would end if the Union prevailed. It was a brilliant stategem that was felt far beyond America.

        gitarcarver: While it can be argued and is probably true that slavery was a major issue within states rights, if you think the sharecropper, small farmer, miller, store owner, etc in the South went to war to fight for slavery, you have never read their writings and are only relying on statements from politicians.

        Like in most wars, individual soldiers typically fought out of pride, patriotism, adventure, to fit in. But there is no historical doubt that slavery was what led to war. It was an issue at the founding, and a constant source of problems thereafter.

        gitarcarver: If the war was about slavery, then why was there relatively little desire to “free the slaves” in the North? For the North, the war was much more about preserving the Union.

        There was a very strong abolitionist movement in the North. The North was burgeoning in population and economic power. That’s why there was such a struggle of western expansion. Eventually, demographics would lead to the end of slavery. The South knew this. The North knew this.

        Lincoln would keep the slaves to save the Union, but that’s because he knew that liberty for all, including for the slaves, depended upon keeping the nation whole. It was a terrible calculation. The threat to slavery is what brought on the war, which the secessionists made very clear.

        gitarcarver: It is a very complicated issue as to why people joined to fight on either side, but to say it was one issue is simply not backed by the people of the day.

        Texans ratified the Declaration of Causes by a vote of 46,000 to 13,000. There was overwhelming (White) support for the “undeniable truths” of white supremacy.

        • Zachriel says:

          Z: It was a brilliant {stratagem} that was felt far beyond America.

          In 1908, in a wild and remote area of the North Caucasus, Leo Tolstoy, the greatest writer of the age, was the guest of a tribal chief “living far away from civilized life in the mountains.” Gathering his family and neighbors, the chief asked Tolstoy to tell stories about the famous men of history. Tolstoy told how he entertained the eager crowd for hours with tales of Alexander, Caesar, Frederick the Great, and Napoleon.

          When he was winding to a close, the chief stood and said, “But you have not told us a syllable about the greatest general and greatest ruler of the world. We want to know something about him. He was a hero. He spoke with a voice of thunder; he laughed like the sunrise and his deeds were strong as the rock

          https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9157330-in-1908-in-a-wild-and-remote-area-of-the

  11. Elwood P. Dowd says:

    What US government body has the power to “cancel” a song? Or a speech?

    Certainly, the Nashville Predators are not obligated to use Gary Glitter’s, “Hey”, song, since they don’t wish to be associated with a convicted pedophile. Certainly, conservatives are not criticizing Nashville Predators’ fans and sponsors for not wanting the team’s theme song to be one from a convicted pedophile.

    Recall the days before cons adopted Martin Luther King, Jr as one of their own? When Dr King was preaching racial equality, unionization, reparations and opposing the Vietnam war, cons could only talk about his marital issues! The FBI secretly recorded King in a years-long effort to discredit him. Eventually, a racist supporter of George Wallace cancelled Dr King for his words.

  12. Zombies are Cool says:

    Uh, no. ((((((((We)))))) have never advocated violent means to destroy public property.

    Yes.

    You have.

    The left has continually bailed out violent anarchists and protestors who burn, pillage and plunder. Have torn down statues and attacked people in the streets. Burnt businesses to the ground. They are arrested and are out in an hour. Your side never stood up to them and said stop or condemned their actions while locking up 1/6 rioters with huge bail and in some cases no bail and some people put in solitary confinement.

    The left condones the tearing down of statues in the name of racism. Your side advocates for violence, The ((WE)) speech meets the criteria for harm coming from said speech.

    You say you don’t, does not mean anything. Actions certainly speak louder than words.

    Remember. The Op was talking about the LEFT not you or me. He was talking about your collective ((((WE))))),

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