“Climate Change” Also Causes Extreme Winters, You Guys!

And capitalism must be destroyed to stop this, says…

(Socialist Worker)  In the Midwest and Northeast U.S., “February 2015 ranked as one of the coldest Februaries on record for many major cities,” wrote Chris Dolce at weather.com. “In Syracuse, New York, and Bangor, Maine…it was…the coldest of any month since records began.”

The cold winter prompted Oklahoma Republican James Inhofe, speaking on the floor of the Senate, to foolishly attempt to disprove climate change because of…the existence of a snowball. “In case we have forgotten,” Inhofe lectured, “because we keep hearing that 2014 has been the warmest year on record, I ask the chair, you know what this is? It’s a snowball. And that’s just from outside here. So it’s very, very cold out.”

As chair of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, Inhofe ought to know that one of the effects of climate change in certain areas is extreme winters–which doesn’t negate the fact that 2014 was, indeed, the warmest year on record. In fact, 13 of the 15 warmest years in history have all happened since 2000.

Huh. So warming causes extreme winters? Is it any wonder I refer these people as members of a cult?

But given that most political and business leaders acknowledge the existence of climate change, then why won’t they do anything to stop it? To answer that question, we need understand that the root cause of climate change is the capitalist economic system. (snip)

Thus, climate change, along with other environmental destruction, is the result of capitalism’s very DNA–the unending competition to expand capital. (snip)

It is also essential to fight for reforms under capitalism. Doing so will further radicalize a new generation of activists and move class struggle towards an anti-capitalist perspective, as it becomes more and more clear that capitalism is the problem.

Just as important, however, is the fact that even a revolution may not be enough if climate change has gotten too far along. We need to buy time. While abundance is the enemy of capitalism, scarcity is that of socialism. Abundance is needed for the realization of a sustainable and just society.

In other words, get rid of capitalism in favor of a socialist economic system, which, let’s be clear, means the Government being heavily in control of all facets of the economy, massive regulation, input from government employees on exactly how a business should operate, and even ownership of the means of production.

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37 Responses to ““Climate Change” Also Causes Extreme Winters, You Guys!”

  1. Michael says:

    This quote was fascinating….

    While abundance is the enemy of capitalism, scarcity is that of socialism.

    We all know throughout history that capitalism in its pure form of free private markets and capital creates abundance while socialism in its truest form of non free government controlled markets and capital creates shortages.

    The question really is who thinks abundance in a capitalistic system is the enemy and who in a socialistic system thinks scarcity is the enemy?

    I beg to say they are the same person just in a different system.

    The one at the top of a capitalistic system hates competition and abundance of others and prefers the monopolization of capital and stifle competition and usually does so through the force of government rules and regulations.

    The one at the top of a socialistic system hates scarcity because it proves that monopolization of capital and no competition does not create abundance and therefore will lose control and power rendering them no longer at the top.

    I propose that the capitalist that makes it to the top and uses the force of government to remain there is the one who finances the creation of the socialist state which eventually collapsed financially.

    Sounds like the normal life cycle of many countries throughout history dating back as far a Rome, if not further….

  2. Dana says:

    It’s true: destroying capitalism would end industrial carbon emissions! Given that capitalism is the only economic system we’ve ever seen which lifted more than a small minority of people above teh subsistence level, destroying capitalism would take us back to the 14th century. No industry, no industrial pollution! 🙂

  3. Jeffery says:

    So warming causes extreme winters?

    Sure seems like it! That the mean global surface temperature is increasing doesn’t mean that the surface is warming uniformly in regards to time and place. The major climate shifts that we are seeing MAY result from the rapid warming in the Arctic.

    It is also essential to fight for reforms under capitalism.

    That hardly sounds like a call to end capitalism, but a call for reforms. What is required is that we pay-as-we-go regarding natural resources. The planet does not replenish all that we take.

    The Earth will one day be exhausted of its current supply of fossil-fuels. What then? Let our great-great grandchildren worry about that? That hardly seems like a Christian thing to do.

  4. Jeffery says:

    Michael opined:

    I propose that the capitalist that makes it to the top and uses the force of government to remain there is the one who finances the creation of the socialist state which eventually collapsed financially.

    Well put.

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014.html#.VZ_zpGfbLmI

  5. Kevin says:

    It causes extreme chips too. I was at the supermarket the other day, and global warming had apparently created ‘3D Extreme Doritos’. Seriously, there is nothing that pernicious beast can’t do.

  6. drowningpuppies says:

    The glaciers in the Himalayas have melted and the Arctic is ice free just as predicted.
    The horror.

  7. drowningpuppies says:

    Are the warmistas offended and upset with Nature for refusing to conform with their expectations?

  8. Jeffery says:

    The glaciers in the Himalayas are melting and the Arctic ice is melting just as predicted.

    There. Corrected that for you.

    … global warming had apparently created ‘3D Extreme Doritos’.

    Funny. But by what rational scientific mechanism do you think global warming created Doritos?

  9. Jeffery says:

    dp,

    The climate realists are upset with the Denialistas, not nature. The Earth is responding pretty much as expected from a rapid increase in atmospheric CO2.

  10. John says:

    Teach it caused a very cold winter in an area of about 1% of planet Earth
    Now a narcissist may think that because that is where he lives it is the most important ace on the planet, but actually it isn’t
    Last year was a year of record breaking heat on planet Earth
    This year also looks like it is going to break. The all time record for heat
    Alaska had an extremely warm winter, it is believed that is what caused the polar vortex to sweep so far south

  11. Liam Thomas says:

    46 years we have had El Nino in the South Pacific Since 1952.

    Thats 46 out of the last 63 years.

    As Predicted by the D-0 Events….El Nino throws a tremendous amount of heat into the atmosphere by pulling it out of the ocean.

    El Niño affected pre-Columbian Incas and may have led to the demise of the Moche and other pre-Columbian Peruvian cultures. A recent study suggests a strong El-Niño effect between 1789 and 1793 caused poor crop yields in Europe, which in turn helped touch off the French Revolution.

    The extreme weather produced by El Niño in 1876–77 gave rise to the most deadly famines of the 19th century. The 1876 famine alone in northern China killed up to 13 million people.

    Folks El Nino is causing most of the weather events we are seeing. Not Co2.

    These AGW’ers who are constantly shouting Co2 is nothing more then their pathetic attempt at killing fossil fuels.

    AGW is a LIE.

  12. Liam Thomas says:

    anyone know what all those ugly events had in common? No Co2 to cause these events.

    Co2 is a lie. AGW is a lie….Its a sham perpetrated upon the world to make rich nations poor and poor nations even poorer…..all in the name of science.

  13. Jl says:

    “The glaciers in the Himalayas are melting and the Artic ice is melting just as pedicted.” And, seeing as both have had melting in the past, proves nothing as to the cause of such alleged melting. There, fixed it even better for you.

  14. […] here in Central New York, a far cry from the bone chilling winter we’ve happily left behind. (Who knew that the bitter cold was caused by global warming and the only cure is the destruction of …) Anyway, today’s funnies were found at Liberty Alliance here and here with credit going to […]

  15. Saturday morning links

    America’s 10 biggest cities, in every decade going back to 1790 Professor’s Manifesto: Vegans Must Illegally Overthrow Society to Save the World Is a mini ICE AGE on the way? Pre-Kindergarten Transsexual Do Scots speak English? Pre-Kinderg

  16. Liam Thomas says:

    Some additional information based in scientific facts and figures and not speculation or BS on my part.

    On the pH scale, which runs from 0 to 14, solutions with low numbers are considered acidic and those with higher numbers are basic. Seven is neutral.

    Over the past 300 million years, ocean pH has been slightly basic, averaging about 8.2. Today, it is around 8.1

    Now one has to remember that during this 300 million stretch at times co2 was in the 1000’s of PPM reaching as much as 4400 PPM.

    Now the AGW crowd point to reef systems dieing and they promise you that it is because of the change in ph from 8.2 to 8.1 over the last 300 million years or more specifically the last 150 years because of AGW.

    However extensive studies which do not seem to find the light of day show that one Very Strong El Nino(we have had two in the last 63 years) will destroy up to 13 percent of south pacific reefs due to HEAT.

    HEAT. Additionally La Nina is responsible for destroying additional south pacific reefs (Very Strong La Nina’s can destroy up to 2 percent of South Pacific reefs and we have 5 of them in the last 63 years) had due to Colder then usual temperatures.

    In fact One Very strong El NINO actually raised the temperature of the planet by 1.5 Degrees celsius during its 17 month run.

    While a miniscule change in the biology of the ocean occuring over vast stretches of time does have some impact….it is the heat and the cold of EL and LA NINA’s that are the main drivers of damaging the coral reef system.

    Now…..The AGW scientists will set out to prove that CO2 is driving EL and LA NINA’s despite the fact that we have had these events for at least 5 million years when co2 was barely 220 ppm all the way up to 450 ppm.

    An interesting side note….AS I pointed out above….46 of 63 years we have faced EL NINO….during the Pliocene epoch in which the AGW group likes to point to as WHAT earth will look like at 400 ppm of co2 because during this Epoch the co2 was ~415ppm of co2 for much of its 3 million years…..

    However the side note is that lost in this fact is that EL NINO has been shown to have been a permanent event….causing drastic weather changes and their was NO man made AGW to heat up the planet or inject co2 into the air.

    Folks don’t waver on this co2 crap. Its a lie……A lie told often enough becomes the truth……even for the POPE.

    NOW…having said that I am all for pollution controls…..strict environmental regulations that does not starve or thirst the population.

    We all should be stewards of the planet….We should build alternative Energy sources out of prudence. We should subsidize R&D into alternatives….not subsidize the alternatives themselves.

    Once Alternatives have replaced fossil fuels then by all means they should be subsidized as part of our national security……

    A

  17. Jeffery says:

    El Nino throws a tremendous amount of heat into the atmosphere by pulling it out of the ocean.

    It should be a simple task to show that the oceans are cooling, then.

    Is this the evidence for that?

    http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/

  18. Jeffery says:

    I concede that “AGW is a lie” is a strong argument.

    But where does the heat that El Ninos add to atmosphere come from? Undersea warming from the Earth?

    Doesn’t it make sense that we should be able to measure ocean cooling if the ocean keeps steadily adding heat to the atmosphere?

    Have the oceans been cooling as the global mean surface temperature has been rising?

  19. Liam Thomas says:

    Defend your own stupid co2 is killing us all hypothesis. You do not want answers….if the heat is being replensished then obviously the oceans will continue to heat.

    There is this little thing called the SUN which provides heat and warmth to the planet. There are underground volcanos spread all thru out the pacific basin.

    GAWD JEFFERY….are you so brainwashed that you refuse to look at any evidence other then CO2 or am I correct in assuming your nothing more then just a communist agw astro-turfer?

    WHY IS IT THAT YOU WOULD THINK THE PACIFIC OCEAN IS WARMER THEN THE ATLANTIC OCEAN?

    I know take a gander at this:

    http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/facts/rof.html

    Every wonder what those underground volcanoes are spewing into the oceans? Most Common Gases

    Water vapor (H2O), carbon dioxide (CO2), and sulfur dioxide (SO2) are the most common volcanic gases.

    Other Gases

    In lesser amounts, volcanoes release carbon monoxide (CO), hydrogen sulfide (H2S), carbonyl sulfide (COS), carbon disulfide (CS2), hydrogen chloride (HCl), hydrogen (H2), methane (CH4), hydrogen flouride (HF), boron, hydrogen bromine (HBr), mercury (Hg) vapor, organic compounds, even gold. From Cadle (1980).

    I have ZERO desire to convince you of anything Jeffery….I only repond to your silly questions because other people with more open minds might wonder the same things.

  20. Jeffery says:

    OK, good. I know how difficult it is for you to supply hypotheses to be critiqued. The Sun and undersea volcanoes are supplying heat to the oceans.

    Solar output is not higher now but lower. How does a dimmer Sun cause more warming?

    Is there evidence that enough heat is being transferred from the Ring of Fire volcanoes to cause the warming oceans?

    Not sure what you imply by volcanic gases being released into the oceans. Is this to explain the decrease in pH and/or the increase in atmospheric CO2 (which is better explained by burning fossil fuels)?

    This is not an insult but just an observation. You argue not as a scientist but as a lawyer. Scientists seek the truth, lawyers seek the victory.

  21. Liam Thomas says:

    You simply are ignorant of the vast amount of scientific research that is being conducted around the world and in many differing fields and much of this explains a warming planet without co2 as the culprit…….

    to wit:

    Discovered in the fall of 2013, the area of super-heated water is roughly 1,000 miles in each direction, about 300 feet deep, and is about 3°C (5°F) warmer normal for that part of the Pacific ocean, according to Bond.

    This blob is most likely the result of several megaplumes functioning 300 miles off the California coast. It is throwing tremendous amounts of water vapor into the atmosphere and is responsible for California’s record drought.

    What are MEGAPLUMES. I am glad you asked.

    Hydrothermal megaplumes are huge volumes of anomalously warm water that are located up to 1,000 metres above the sea floor and appear to be generated at mid-ocean ridges. Since their discovery in 1986, there has been considerable debate concerning their origin. A theoretical model is used to argue that the cooling of pillow basalts, which are erupted at approx1,200 °C into sea water and are the most common form of submarine volcanic activity, is responsible for the megaplume formation.

    National Geographic another signee of the AGW truther movement writes:

    “A normal hydrothermal vent might produce something like 500 megawatts, while this is producing 100,000 megawatts. It’s like an atom bomb down there.”

    “Ninety percent of the Earth’s volcanic activity takes place underwater,” Murton said. “Just because we can’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not there.””

    Discover Magazine: In Search of Megaplumes
    Imagine volcanoes that erupt with giant spinning plumes filled with microbes and other life that spin like a discus for months. Welcome to the strange, almost completely unknown life of undersea eruptions.

    The discovery of Megaplumes:

    The Juan de Fuca Ridge has garnered a lot of scientific interest because it runs roughly parallel to the northwest coast of the United States only 300 miles offshore, making it relatively easy to get to.

    “We wanted to map the ridge to see where vent fields were likely to be,” Baker says

    We were using an instrument that measures the optical clarity of the water. It’s very simple, really. It shines a light from point A to point B. And if there is less light at the end, it’s because there are particles in the water. All of a sudden it started going up and up and up when it should have been zero, zero, zero!

    “At first we thought, ‘Well, what’s wrong with the instruments?’ It took us a while to realize there wasn’t a problem. There were just plumes where there weren’t supposed to be plumes. Instead of plumes rising 200 meters above the seafloor, we had plumes 1,000 meters above it.

    This happened in 1986 Jeffery…..they have been mega pluming every since and in 2013 the BLOB appeared…..the blob is a 1000 mile by 1000 mile by 300 meter deep blob of warm water that is 3.5 degrees CELSIUS warmer then the rest of the ocean around it…..

    So yes…there is plenty of evidence for volcanoes warming the pacific and in fact IF I was advising Jerry Brown I would be on a crash course of building pipelines inland and building Seawater conversion plants…..because California is in for a 100 year drought…the same type of drought that drove the Mayans from their nation.

    and it aint got nuffin to do wid co2.

  22. Jeffery says:

    I may be ignorant but I try not to be dishonest.

    From the Bond paper you misleadingly cited:

    As detailed in this recent article published in Geophysical Research Letters, the warm waters of the Blob can be attributed to a reduction in the seasonal cooling of the ocean under a strong and persistent ridge of higher than normal sea level pressure that was present during the winter of 2013/14. This ridge meant fewer storms and weaker winds, and hence less heat transferred from the ocean to the atmosphere. The winds also tended to be less westerly than usual, resulting in transport of relatively warm water by upper-ocean currents into the region of interest.

    The authors did not mention volcanic megaplumes. Was that your own addition?

    So yes…there is plenty of evidence for volcanoes warming the pacific

    And yet you refuse to supply any.

    Let me ask you 2 simple and direct questions.

    Do you have any evidence that the large areas of ocean warming are caused by the megaplumes? (Please supply scientific citations).

    What is the best scientific estimate for how much of the ocean warming we’ve seen is attributable to volcanic activity? (Please supply scientific citations).

  23. Liam Thomas says:

    Volcanoes lurking hidden under the world’s oceans may play a far greater role in climate change than previously thought, according to a new study.

    Scientists have found that underwater volcanoes, which were long assumed to ooze lava at relatively steady rates, in fact erupt in pulses.

    For those interested. I doubt that Jeffery even understands the implications of what Bond said in his quote.

    As for Bond……. the warm waters of the Blob can be attributed to a reduction in the seasonal cooling of the ocean under a strong and persistent ridge of higher than normal sea level pressure that was present during the winter of 2013/14

    High-pressure systems are usually associated with fair weather. This is because as the air sinks, it warms and is able to hold more water vapor. Thus, in these systems, clouds tend to evaporate and the air stabilizes. Storms have a hard time forming in stable air. Could it be possible that a mass that is 1000 miles by 1000 miles by 300 feet deep be the cause of its own high pressure system?

    And it’s not the only one; there are two others that emerged in 2014, Nate Mantua of the Southwest Fisheries Science Center — part of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) — said in September. One is in the Bering Sea and the other is off the coast of Southern California.

    So where are these sudden blobs coming from? Did they just miraculously show up because in 2013 and 2014 the earth finally decided enough is enough with all this co2 were gonna punish those filthy Amerikanas.

    Even more compelling is why are they mysteriously appearing in areas where suspected Megaplumes exist?

    And why are megaplumes known to create high pressure ridges?

    I find it amusing how the AGW crowd will resort to confusing scientific mumbo jumbo to explain why something happens if it cant be traced to fossil fuels.

    Essentially he said a high pressure system is the result of the blob yet the blog sets over a line of mega plumes that create high pressure ridges.

    Comical.

  24. Jeffery says:

    Liam,

    My questions were simple and direct.

    You are under no obligation to answer, but it would bolster your argument.

    So no. You do not have evidence.

    You offer yet another hypothesis, get caught fudging the “evidence”, then squirm and dance and resort to irrelevant sciency mumbo-jumbo.

    Acceptance of the theory that human generated CO2 is causing global warming is based on the overwhelming supporting evidence. You could be the next Copernicus or Galileo and falsify the theory, break the consensus, but it will take evidence, not lies.

    It’s not comical, it’s sad.

  25. liam Thomas says:

    My questions were simple and direct.

    My questions to you are simple and direct and you never answer them.

    consider this….or in your case…..forget it…..you are a paid astro-turfer who has a financial interest in destroying fossil fuels……..for the rest of you consider this:

    The earths eco system is a giant jig saw puzzle.

    Say 1000 pieces. We have found about 90 of them. Whenever we find one more piece of the puzzle we put it in place and we still do not understand what the full picture represents.

    This is the AGW movement and this is Jeffery in a nutshell. I explain to you fully a hypothesis and provide documentation. I did not fudge Bond’s report………

    I simply cited him because he was the one from the University of Washington which gave it, its name.

    You cited his high pressure theory. Yet megaplumes have been discovered under the Blob and megaplumes create tremendous heat and create high pressure ridges in their wake.

    Your the one LYING, DISTORTING and discrediting anything that does not fit with your 4th grade CO2 is killing us all mantra.

    The overwhelming theory is bought and paid for by the communists who want to create a pauper state of the USA and redistribute its wealth.

    The liar is you…I am simply pointing out that in the grand jig saw puzzle that is our earth…….there are so many missing pieces of the puzzle that anyone claiming the science is settled…….

    is a disingenious liar with an agenda.

  26. Jeffery says:

    Nice diversions. Communists, astro-turfers and liars, oh my!

    Do you have evidence to support the hypothesis that undersea volcanoes are significantly warming the oceans, which in turn are warming the Earth’s surface?

    I concede there are uncertainties in any analysis. Is it only 90 bits out of 1000? I don’t know. Accepting your analysis, so far, all the 90 bits support the notion that increased atmospheric CO2 is causing increased retention of the Sun’s energy warming the oceans and the Earth’s surface. Will uncovering your 910 new bits reveal a physical mechanism that falsifies that theory? It’s possible. Will you concede that it’s possible that most of the warming we’re now seeing is from increased CO2?

    Do you have evidence to support the hypothesis that undersea volcanoes are significantly warming the oceans, which in turn are warming the Earth’s surface?

    Can you find a paper estimating the degree to which the undersea volcanoes contribute to the overall heat content of the oceans? Thanks.

  27. Liam Thomas says:

    A new batch of 5,000 emails among scientists central to the assertion that humans are causing a global warming crisis were anonymously released to the public yesterday, igniting a new firestorm of controversy nearly two years to the day after similar emails ignited the Climategate scandal.

    Three themes are emerging from the newly released emails: (1) prominent scientists central to the global warming debate are taking measures to conceal rather than disseminate underlying data and discussions; (2) these scientists view global warming as a political “cause” rather than a balanced scientific inquiry and (3) many of these scientists frankly admit to each other that much of the science is weak and dependent on deliberate manipulation of facts and data.

    IN regards to the Science is Settled and my comments:

    I ask AGW’ers everywhere for a plan to end fossil fuels and they revert to calling me names and declaring the science is settled and that polar bears in the zoo are demanding more ice or some such nonsense.

    They demand and end to fossil fuel subsidies…which would do what? Raise prices and harm the little man with higher prices because we still need fossil fuels.

    They demand we subsidize alternatives. We are. Every country but the USA is pouring money into Alternatives and still…….they beg for more fossil fuels.

    They say Cap and trade and yet even their own people say cap and trade is not punishing enough…But what exactly does cap and trade do? It taxes the emission of co2. Yet….fossil fuels are every bit as essential to this planet as is water and oxygen….without them nothing happens, we all starve…..

    They say carbon offsets….yet all this does is trade your co2 emission to someone else and then you just keep on emitting co2….but you have assuaged your angst because you paid a fine for still pumping co2 into the air.

    No solutions…..no potential solutions.

    My methodology is simple. Nothing the AGW crowd comes up with is anything more then redistributing wealth. All their plans and schemes does NOTHING to end CO2 emissions, it only punishes the co2 emitters by having to pay extra. The fact that there is not a crash program in place to end fossil fuels emission tells me that “The Science is Settled” is a sham and a scam perpetrated on the world.

    Yes the planet is warming. Yes Co2 is rising. These are indeed facts which I do not dispute….The real question is why and as the released emails between the climate scientists show….their cooked data does little to stem my Alarmism about the Science is Settled matter…..

    And one day if and when these scientist who are so concerned were all going to die……actually invest time in finding solutions rather then collecting grant money to continue to shout the science is settled……..If that day ever comes when they offer up real workable solutions.

    Sign me up….I have no dog in the Fossil Fuel fight….never have and never will….and contrary to what Jeffery the janitor claims….I do not work for fossil fuels but I owe my check to fossil fuels because without it would be very hard for me to get across the ocean to my next assignment.

    I would be willing to bet that Jeffery gleans his paycheck from fossil fuels because even if his building is totally alternatives powered…….all those alternative sources were built with Fossil fuels….and I bet he drives a non electric car AND oh but wait…..those cars were built with fossil fuels.

    AGW is a scam……Its time that the scientists worked on real problems….if they hate Exxon so much…then find solutions to end Exxon’s grip on our economy……Im okay with that.

  28. Jeffery says:

    Liam,

    I concede that “AGW is a scam” is a strong, strong argument.

    But I’ve noticed that those that deny it’s even possible for CO2 to be causing global warming tend to change the subject when pinned down on a single scientific issue and usually list a multitude of other objections. This is so prevalent that it even has a name, The Gish Gallop.

    It’s why I insist on my “One Lie at a Time, Please” strategy. You made a claim that undersea volcanoes are actually warming the oceans, which in turn is warming the atmosphere. Before we jump to your Gish Gallop of new diversions can you please support your simple claim with direct evidence?

    Do you have evidence to support the hypothesis that undersea volcanoes are significantly warming the oceans, which in turn are warming the Earth’s surface?

  29. Liam Thomas says:

    Why do you fear a warmer planet. I have shown that through out geological time that massive droughts and floods and global warming and cooling have occurred repeatedly when mankind was not even around to partake in it.

    Now suddenly mankind is smack dab in the middle of the path of Mother Nature and we should all give up our lives and live in huts and farm with sticks……

    IF it is CO2 that is the main driver of global warming.

    Then the assumption has to be.

    1. Only Co2 changes the weather.
    2. Only Co2 makes droughts and floods.
    3. Only Co2 makes hurricanes and tornadoes.
    4. Only Co2 makes wind and calm.
    5. Only Co2 makes Snow and Hail.
    6. Only Co2 is responsible for the weather because its making things warmer and by cause and effect of the settled science…..warmer means 1-5 above.

    If it is only co2 that is the driver of global warming and remember its not just warming now….its CLIMATE CHANGE……….

    So if ONLY CO2 drives the climate then how do you explain all the past geological floods, droughts, hurricanes, rise and fall of the oceans, Ice ages and inter glacials. The movement of entire civilizations when co2 was less then 250 ppm.

    IF ONLY Co2 drives the weather…..Now of course you will then spout of Milankovich cycles or sun spots when its convient for you to do so but when anyone who challenges the CO2 mantra does so then of course we must provide detailed scientific evidence to support our claims.

    IF ITS ONLY CO2…that drives the weather….then we are certainly doomed because the earth holds at least 4400 ppm of co2 just waiting to be released.

    So the question all us skeptics have of the CO2 mantra is when will you actually give up fossil fuels that create co2. And by giving them up I dont mean to imply solar panels that use fossil fuels to create….or electric cars that use fossil fuels to create….

    What I mean Jeffery is when will you close up your business but an acre of land and live in a grass hut and hand weave your own clothes and farm your own garden with sticks and stones.

    That is basically what the AGW crowd is demanding because IF CO2 is the MAIN DRIVER then we must END CO2 period…..totally and permanently.

    I wont hold my breath.

    Hypocrisy is what makes AGW’ers so phony and transparent.

  30. Jeffery says:

    Liam,

    One Lie at a Time, Please.

    Obviously, you don’t have evidence to support your original claim. We’ll label this claim “unsupported”.

    You blamed all warming related issues on El Ninos – I asked how the El Ninos kept adding heat to the atmosphere without depleting the heat content of the oceans. You conveniently claimed undersea volcanoes were warming the oceans. Apparently not.

    Science is different from the courtroom. In court you can introduce an unsupported alternative explanation – The Volcanoes Did It! – to sway the jury.

    So, if undersea volcanoes are not causing the oceans to warm, what is? Obviously, it’s the Sun. Why is the Earth retaining more of the Sun’s energy?

  31. Liam Thomas says:

    And your seriously suggesting that a ring of massive underseas volcanos spewing 2000 degree heat into the oceans have zero effect on the temperature of the oceans? Is that what your suggesting?

    Do you have evidence to support the hypothesis that undersea volcanoes are significantly warming the oceans, which in turn are warming the Earth’s surface

    and I never said significantly….they are contributing to the pacific ocean heat. While its true that he pacific has a much larger surface area to the sun and is exposed to the sun about twice as long allowing for more heat to enter the ocean. El Ninos are contributing to ocean heat. Above ocean volcanos affect climate.

    http://oceantoday.noaa.gov/deepoceanvolcanoes/

    or perhaps:

    I would link it…you can find it at the American Museum of Natural History.

    A chain of 107 volcanoes – some islands, some submerged – extends from Hawaii to the northwest. This 6,000-kilometer-long chain begins with the still-submerged Loihi. Moving northwest, the volcanoes become progressively older. The chain forms as the Pacific plate creeps at 9 centimeters a year over a stationary hot spot in the mantle that has been providing magma for 80 million years. The sharp ben…

    Or perhaps: This report was included in the last IPCC report.

    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2008JCLI2489.1

    For Mount Pinatubo most analyses show general warming except in the western equatorial [South] Pacific.

    Line from the paper itself.

    Yet here we find contradictory explanations.

    In 2011, scientists discovered that small volcanoes can significantly change the planet’s climate.

    Remember the AGW crowd hates Volcanos they cannot change the weather…only CO2 changes the weather.

    “Part of the lack of the increase in warming for the last 15 years may be due to the cooling effect of volcanoes,” said Céline Bonfils, a study co-author and climate scientist at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LNNL) in Livermore, Calif.

    Now make up your minds…..either volcanos do or they dont affect climate?

    I would go on and on but the point is simple….anything that does not implicate fossil fuels is debunked even if its rooted in professional analysis such as their own bible the IPCC.

    So with El Nino’s, the Sun, Above and below ground volcanos and changing chemical make up of the oceans based upon constant outflow of undersea volcanos as well as mega plumes……..we can see that they have NO EFFECT ON THE CLIMATE.

    ITS ONLY CO2. And your attempting to make me look foolish……….A troll is a troll is a troll.

  32. Jeffery says:

    Of course volcanoes impact the climate. You’re using an all-or-none tactic instead of engaging in a scientific debate.

    From the temperature record, major volcanic eruptions lead to short term (years) temperature decreases from adding particulates and aerosols to the atmosphere blocking some of the Sun’s energy reaching Earth.

    Obviously, volcanic eruptions are hard to predict.

    Of course undersea volcanoes add heat to the oceans. My question was how much.

    Of course no one is claiming that CO2 is the only impact on the global mean surface temperature. The question is what is driving the current rapid warming of the oceans and the Earth’s surface.

    The ultimate objective of most Deniers appears to be protecting fossil fuels.

  33. Liam Thomas says:

    Of course volcanoes impact the climate. You’re using an all-or-none tactic instead of engaging in a scientific debate.

    Oh thats classic. There is no debate….there is only you demanding evidence and ridiculing anything I say. Ridicule does not bother me from trolls. Its what your paid to do.

    Of course no one is claiming that CO2 is the only impact on the global mean surface temperature.

    More Classic.

    Jeffery said: Will you concede that it’s possible that most of the warming we’re now seeing is from increased CO2?

    The ultimate objective of most Deniers appears to be protecting fossil fuels.

    Unless and until you can provide an alternative….that would make sense. Im a protector of fossil fuels for three reasons.

    1. The science is not settled on Climate Change……A lie told often enough IS NOT THE TRUTH.
    2. There is nothing to replace them. If a child dies you dont replace that child. You might have another child but its totally a different entity. Alternatives will not and cannot replace fossil fuels.
    3. Fossil Fuels are a national security issue for every country on earth. They cannot be willy nilly deleted and replaced without something equally effective at what they do.

    Once you actually defend your positions with something other then the science is settled….and I notice you ignore the e-mails implicating the GREAT LIE that is AGW…..

    Why is that…..

    This is a debate? hardly this is only you asking more and more and more questions with vague and sometimes bold pronouncements of my “ONE LIE AT A TIME” in between more questions.

    Don’t make me laugh…..jr. high school debate teams do a better job debating then you do Jeffery.

  34. Liam Thomas says:

    Of course volcanoes impact the climate.

    Glad you agree.

    From the temperature record, major volcanic eruptions lead to short term (years) temperature decreases from adding particulates and aerosols to the atmosphere blocking some of the Sun’s energy reaching Earth.

    Read your own IPCC bible….they would disagree with you….I cited them.

    Obviously, volcanic eruptions are hard to predict.

    The ones Im referring to have been occuring for millions of years literally non stop.

    Of course undersea volcanoes add heat to the oceans.

    Im glad you see the light.

    My question was how much.

    Does it matter? As long as you agree they are adding heat to the ocean. As for Co2 the same can be asked….How much is Co2 and how much is naturally occuring heat? Your response would be does it matter and the answer is yes. Because you seem to want everyone to believe that ALL THE HEAT is coming from co2…..and that is just not true…..you even agree with me.

    Of course no one is claiming that CO2 is the only impact on the global mean surface temperature.

    Yes you have pretty much repeated this mantra over and over. The earth is warming, co2 is rising, fossil fuels create co2 mantra.

    The question is what is driving the current rapid warming of the oceans and the Earth’s surface.

    I don’t know. I put forth several hypothesis including Megaplumes, 46 years of El Nino since 1952, continual erruptions of volcanoes which even the IPCC shows in their report actually caused warming not cooling…which they cant seem to explain. Water Vapor. Metane, Co2. There are many reasons. NOT JUST ONE….however despite your protestations you know you are convinced it is only co2.

    The ultimate objective of most Deniers appears to be protecting fossil fuels.

    Already answered this.

  35. Jeffery says:

    What I stated was:

    Of course no one is claiming that CO2 is the only impact on the global mean surface temperature.

    It’s just at this time it’s causing warming.

    Does it matter how much heat megaplumes are adding? Of course it does. If it’s 50% that’s important. If it’s 0.1% not so much. Hence, my reason for asking how much.

    Does it matter how much warming is caused by CO2? Of course it does. If it’s 50% that’s important etc etc. The evidence at this time supports that it’s more than 50%.

    As I said, you argue as if you’re defending fossil fuels rather than about the facts of global warming.

    How to proceed in the face of man-made global warming is a legitimate debate to have. Let’s have it. But denying that man-made global warming is occurring is dishonest.

  36. Liam Thomas says:

    Thanks for a rational discussion. I have NEVER said the earth is not warming. In fact I have made the point repeatedly that the earth is warming and climate is changing. My question has alway been WHY?

    No one really knows about mega plumes jeffery because they were just discovered in 1986.

    Additionally the mega plume discovered in the indian ocean is estimated to be giving off 100,000 megawatts per day……that is a tremendous amount of heat. The ring around Hawaii has been erupting for 80 million years….giving off an estimated 650,000 megawatts of energy per day….thats mind boggling.

    1 MW can power as many as 1000 homes. And other studies suggest that 45 MW can power a small city of 80,000. Just these two undersea volcanos are giving off enough energy to heat 750,000 homes per day or roughly they could fuel a city of nearly 3 million people….Thats just TWO known underwater vents.

    Most of these volcanoes have been errupting for millions of years its where the islands come from…..

    So yes volcanos are causing the pacific to warm more so then the Atlantic because of the pacific rim basin of volanology. How much….no one knows because its pretty hard to study these in depth when they are 2-5 miles below the surface…..

    However there are mega plumes occuring under the Antarctic….the prevailing assumption based upon some measuring is that they are not affecting the melt in the antarctic. I would disagree. Any addtional heat introduced in any eco system is going to have some impact.

    I honestly dont know what is driving the current rise in global warming…..but what I do know is that geologically this has happened 1000’s upon 1000’s of times over the course of the last 6 million years when co2 was 220 ppm and when it was 500 ppm….so Im skeptical of co2 as being the MAIN driver of this global warming.

    And trust me on this one subject….I want alternatives to be developed…I would like to see more research and development into ways to replace fossil fuels. I do not work for an oil or gas company and I do not work for a company that works for an oil or gas company….So I do not care if oil and gas and coal fuels our future or not…..

    And yes once again the planet is warming, climate is changing and the honest answer we should all be saying is were not really sure whats driving it…..if you approached it like that then I would accompany you on your bandwagon down main street asking for funding for alternatives.

  37. Michael says:

    Well there is a really good site that helps you do the math and science yourself.

    Here’s the last tidbit from the site and the link.

    Humidity has been decreasing in the upper atmosphere over the last 60 years. That offsets the rising CO2. We saw the cooling in the 70’s but increased solar radiation along with ocean cycles held off the cooling over the last 20 years. That period has now come to an end.

    Mother Earth has an excellent thermostat system. Even if somehow average humidity should increase to 50% and CO2 goes to 1000 ppm, only about 2 Watts/m2 will be added. This is unlikely in the extreme, and would add a small fraction of a degree to warming. No one would notice.

    My question is: Why have the professional “climatologists” not done the simple work that I did on a lazy Saturday afternoon with my laptop? They must know that water vapor nearly wipes out CO2 in warming the Earth, and that clouds and albedo do the rest. What’s their excuse for this massive “oversight”?

    – See more at: http://notrickszone.com/2012/08/06/why-the-earth-is-cooling-co2-warming-is-only-a-tenth-of-what-the-models-show/#.dpuf

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