On one hand, Kim Davis (who’s a Democratic Party voter, to be clear) should be lauded for standing by the force of her convictions in refusing to provide marriage licenses for gays. On the other hand, sometimes the duties and requirements of jobs change. We have a choice in complying with them, or leaving for a different job. It appears as if she could have simply allowed the other clerks to perform the marriages and do the paperwork. That said, jail is foolish. They could have simply let her go. But, where, exactly, does the 1st Amendment start and end in this situation? That’s a much bigger discussion which is causing conniptions with even heavy duty legal scholars.
But, hey, remember, the Supreme Court’s decision on gay marriage is Settled Law! So say all sorts of Leftist activists. But, what of the Hobby Lobby decision?
Now that Kim Davis is in Jail, Let’s Re-Think Hobby Lobby
In a homophobic political stunt poorly veiled in “religious beliefs,” Rowan County, Kentucky clerk Kim Davis denied marriage licenses to LGBT couples despite a federal court order instructing her that the US Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage nationwide, and she must comply. She claimed that issuing the licenses would be a violation of her “religious beliefs,” continued to defy the law, and is now in jail for contempt of court. However, when Hobby Lobby had contempt for the reproductive health rights of its female employees, the US Supreme Court ruled Hobby Lobby did not have to comply with the Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate because doing so would violate the “religious beliefs” of Hobby Lobby, a “person.”
Interesting, in that the author, Sanjeev K. Sriram, refuses to acknowledge the true beliefs, and instead creates his own for these folks. It sure seems that Kim Davis has true religious beliefs: she went to jail over them. This is one of the things Progressives (nice fascists) like to do: impart different (and non-stated) viewpoints for situations that change the dialogue in their favor, viewpoints that don’t match what the original people say, allowing the Progressives to attack in a manner to force political change, especially when people like Kim Davis attempt to stand on their Constitutional Rights. Can’t have that, you know, not when Social Justice is at stake!
One person can dress up their homophobia in “religious belief” and be sent to jail, while another “person” can dress up misogyny in “religious belief” and receive the support of the highest court in the country. I know this is an oversimplification.
A vast oversimplification, and, again, telling us what these folks in question believe, in contradiction.
The reason I am making this argument on an editorial page and not in front of a judge is because I am appealing to my fellow Americans for whatever decency may exist in our court of public opinion.
Wait, I thought shaming and cyberbullying, along with real world bullying, was a bad thing? Oh, right, not when Social Justice is at stake. Then people can be abused to no end.
For these behaviors to be upheld in the case of Hobby Lobby and punished in the case of Kim Davis worsens discrimination by making it feel arbitrary: getting bullied by someone’s Bible is okay, but only sometimes?
Apparently, though, it’s OK to bully Kim Davis. Funny how that works. It’s not OK to bully gays for their beliefs, but, going after Kim Davis? A-OK. (It’s not OK to bully either, let’s be clear)
Women have a right to contraception under their basic human right to health care, and LGBT couples have a right to marriage under basic civil rights. None of these rights should be denied due to the whims of public or private authority’s “religious freedoms.” As Kim Davis sits in jail and Hobby Lobby enjoys “personhood,” both need to learn that disagreeing with someone’s rights does not entitle you to oppressing them.
A couple points. First, we can see the Progressive talking point about the “right to contraception” idiocy. No woman is actually being denied. Hobby Lobby never said once that the women who work for them cannot use it. They are just not going to pay for certain forms, nor for abortifacients and abortions. Progressive Social Justice Warriors will never admit that part. They must create a version where the big evil religiosity company is completely denying their female employees any and all contraception.
Why, exactly, must the company pay for a woman’s contraception? There’s no right to that anywhere within the Constitution. Nor was this “right” actually included in the Affordable Care Act. Contraception is not mentioned at all in Obamacare. The Contraception Mandate was wholly created by Health And Human Services out of thin air. Is food a human right? How about housing? We’ve been told they are. Perhaps companies should be forced to pay for those. Maybe they should be forced to pay for other things, too. Right?
They may have a “basic right”, but that doesn’t mean Someone Else should be forced to pay for it, especially when it interferes with the Rights of other people.
Second, oppression? Seriously? It’s oppression to be forced to pay $9 a month to buy your own birth control pills, and pay for your own abortions? It should be noted that Dr. Sriram is a pediatrician. He is the “Host of “Dr. America” on We Act Radio, pediatrician in Washington DC, member of the National Physicians Alliance.” A baby doctor. Yet, strangely, he is advocating for the killing of the unborn.
You might be saying “hey, he’s just one guy, one I’ve never even heard of.” Yet, you can bet the ranch that Progressives were totally agreeing with Dr. Sriram’s screed. They have no problem with forcing compliance, by law, with their beliefs, even if they violate the Constitution.
Crossed at Right Wing News.
Davis was not jailed for her beliefs, she was jailed for using the power of the state to impose her religious beliefs on others.
Dr. Sriram mentions, but then ignores, an important distinction. Davis, as a state official, was using her government position to force her religious beliefs on others. It’s as if a Muslim clerk would only allow other Muslims to obtain a state license.
On the other hand, Hobby Lobby is a closely held private company. We can all agree that Davis’ actions were wrong, but that the Hobby Lobby issue is much more complex. (BTW, universal healthcare would obviate the need for Hobby Lobby type discussions).
Frankly, I’m surprised that so-called conservatives and libertarians defend her actions – a government official was violating the law, forcing others to abide by her religious beliefs. Was there a reasonable concession to be made? Why wouldn’t she allow others in her office to issue the licenses?
Davis was not jailed for her beliefs, she was jailed for using the power of the state to impose her religious beliefs on others.
We understand why CCCs (Caucasian, Christian conservatives), as the dominant American culture, relentlessly play the victim card, feeling their supremacy slipping, now even relying on the power of the state to enforce their position. Your political arm, the Republican Party, is working overtime through gerrymandering and voter suppression to maintain your white, Christian supremacy.
[…] William Teach on The Pirate’s Cove: Liberal World: Now That Kim Davis Is In Jail For Her Beliefs, What Say We Rethink Hobby Lobby? […]
Jeff,
Obama abused his power of the Presidency to impose the Individual Mandate but delayed the Employer Mandate to get re-elected.
Obama does not impose immigration laws to gain favor with Latino groups which have resulted in theft, rape and murder by illegals on American citizens.
Lois Lerner abused her power to impede conservative groups from raising money so Obama and other Democrats could be elected.
Eric Holder abused his power to undermine the Second Amendment and as a result hundreds if not thousand of Mexican citizens have been murdered by the cartels.
The EPA abuses their power to impose new regulations which result in higher costs for energy.
VA administrators abuse their power to commit fraud which resulted in the death of thousands of veterans who were not just promised but guaranteed they would get in case of a service born injury or sickness.
Yet none of these people in jail and they haven’t been charged. Just more selective prosecution of those who stand by their beliefs.
I wrote,
VA administrators abuse their power to commit fraud which resulted in the death of thousands of veterans who were not just promised but guaranteed they would get in case of a service born injury or sickness.
I meant,
VA administrators abuse their power to commit fraud which resulted in the death of thousands of veterans who were not just promised but guaranteed they would get health care to cover service born injury or sickness.
CB,
So do you support government officials performing their duties based on their religious beliefs?
The other issues you’ve listed have been litigated, re-litigated and investigated by Congress. You may disagree with the decisions, but we’re a nation of laws.
Do you think that Ms. Davis should be allowed to stop same-sex marriages in her official capacity?
And the horrific issues (and there may be crimes!) with the VA would disappear with universal healthcare.
You Vill Sign Our Marriage Licenses…
And You Vill Bake Our Vedding Cakes…
But First You Vill Blow Me!
Heil Obama!
dp,
Did the Nazis make their county clerks administer legal marriage licenses to same-sex couples? Or are you just equating county clerks doing their jobs with Nazism? And you add a gay slur!
But seriously, do you support government employees basing their official duties on their religious beliefs at the time?
What happens if a government employee changes religions? Let’s say I’m an open-minded Episcopalian county clerk and get mugged by a Black man; because of this I have an epiphany and become an Evangelical and suddenly oppose gays with the white-hot heat of a thousand Suns. Even though I’ve signed thousands of same-sex marriage licenses up to now, can I now force my employer (the people) to make reasonable concessions to my newfound religious beliefs?
Let’s say I’m an open-minded…
Uh, no. Let’s say you’re a lunatic, self-absorbed, arrogant asshole with pretensions of intellectual superiority llke all other leftists and go from there, shall we?
Let the leftist rants begin.
(Reuters) – A federal judge has upheld part of Arizona’s contentious immigration law, rejecting claims that the so-called “show your papers” section of the law discriminated against Hispanics.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0R50WD20150905
What if Dabis’s deeply held religious beliefs extended to refusing to issue marriage licenses to Jews? Or blacks
Would you also laud her for going to jail or wound you say she was a bigot
Davis deserves nothing but shame gir refusing to do her well paid 80000$ a year job she swore to do
Would you accept Obama to say that he was going to allow all immigrants to enter the USA because of his religious beliefs?
Ease note what that Christian bible has to say about immigration
Stop vexing them !!!
Read you bible
suckingpuppies,
Boy howdy… your typings do little to change my opinion of my intellectual superiority. Of course, being intellectually superior to you is such a low bar. I do try to understand your frustration, though, driven as it is by fear and hate.
It’s an easy question. Do you really believe that US gov’t officials should govern according to their personal religious beliefs?
Should a conservative Muslim clerk at the DMV be allowed to withhold driver’s licenses from women because his religion forbids women to drive?
No Jeff they haven’t been fully litigated or fully investigated by Congress. Members of the administration have failed to obey judges orders to turn over documents through FOIA requests. I haven’t seen anyone in the administration go to jail yet for disobeying a court order. When Lois Lerner was called to testify before Congress she too the fifth, twice.
I guess leftists believe only state workers should go to jail while Lois Lerner and other Federal officials lie and destroy evidence are free to retire and draw their pensions.
No. She should be suspended or terminated, not put in jail. As I said jail is for the peons while high level officials get to retire.
There is an easier question: Should a person be forced to act against their religious beliefs?
Should sanctuary cities allowed to subvert federal law because of the beliefs of a few people?
I would argue that Davis’ actions are not appropriate because 1) she is blocking the whole system up and is preventing the dispensing of any marriage licenses. 2) There is no alternative at this time that does not cause undue hardships on others. For example, people have said that people can go get licenses in the next county. That’s a little too much of a burden for me.
But there is an easy solution both short term and long term.
Davis has put in her court responses that she just doesn’t want her name on the license. Carolina law, unlike other states, requires the signature of the Clerk. Pass a law that allows her deputies to sign the licenses and go from there. That is a reasonable accommodation for her religious beliefs. Problem solved in the short term.
The other thing is to get the state out of the marriage license business.
Initially the license was to allow couples to register as a couple in the state for various purposes. Now the license comes with regulations and requirements couples must pass. The license has gone from being a record to a burden on the couples. Such a burden is far outside the duties and responsibilities of the government.
Why is it that county clerks who issued marriage licenses to gays when it was not legal to do so didn’t go to jail?
Why is it that city officials who continually violate immigration law — something that, sadly, results in the violent death of their own residents — have not spent one single second behind bars?
This why you and your kind do not give a good goddam about the rule of law. The law, to you and yours, is to be used to get revenge against those you oppose, not to mete out justice.
For you lefties, this has nothing to do with upholding the law and everything to do with payback.
So go on and wax arrogantly and stupidly about upholding the law and the duties and responsibilities of an elected official,… yada,yada, because we know that you could care less about the law, duty, or responsibility.
The Left never has nor never will.
jeff,
No, no one has significantly investigated anything that was listed by conservative.
And, no, The VA is the picture of universal health care run by the government. It is the same in every country that has such care. Grow up, get an education, obtain some real world experiences, get out of your parents home.
Now, for the issue of the clerk, can’t be summed up better than this: render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, render to God what is God’s. In this case the woman took a secular job that requires obedience to the will of the government. Imagine what would happen if a Muslim tried to impose his will. First, the government would allow it and second the precedent would be established for us to be under the thumb of that nutty religion.