He’s back!
(Orlando Sun Sentinel) Controversial Gainesville Pastor Terry Jones, known for his plans to publicly burn copies of the Muslim holy book, was arrested Wednesday with thousands of kerosene-soaked Qurans, authorities said.
Jones, 61, was arrested on felony charges after a traffic stop near a pharmacy in Mulberry, a small town in Polk County, just before 5 p.m. He faces charges of unlawfully transporting fuel and openly carrying a firearm.
Deputies said Jones was riding in a pickup truck that was towing a smoker and trailer filled with kerosene-soaked Qurans. He also had extra bottles of kerosene inside the truck bed.
According to Jones’ website, he planned to burn 2,998 Qurans in the Tampa Bay area on Wednesday. He was arrested along with Associate Pastor Marvin Sapp.
“My detectives had many conversations with Terry Jones prior to today,” Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said Wednesday. “He was told he was welcome to come to Polk County and express his First Amendment rights. However, if he violated the law, he would absolutely be arrested and placed in the county jail.
There are many who are saying “yeah, couldn’t happen to a nicer person” and celebrating his arrest. While Jones (I refuse to call him a pastor) is not a nice person, is a wacko and a jerk, to put it mildly, he was going to engage in his 1st Amendment Rights, and the police just happened to stop him and arrest him after warning him. By what law did they stop him? They certainly couldn’t see the gun. What was the traffic stop based on? Police can’t just pull someone over for no reason that they can see. It looks as if Nutjob was intentionally targeted by the police because they did not approved of what he planned to do.
While I personally think he should stop this burning Korans for many reasons, we should all consider the implications of Government interfering with someone engaged in Free Speech and demonstration. Especially Free Speech and demonstration that we disagree with. That’s one of the main points of those clauses, to protect what which we do not disagree with. Oh, and to tell Government “hands off”. The next person stopped and arrested could be you.
Rick Moran kinda wants it both ways (and it’s not just Nazi’s that burn books), and here’s Melissa McEwan showing Typical Liberal Tolerance
I’m sure he will not be charged with a terrorist act, but he should be. He is blatantly and unapologetically trying to incite hostilities against Muslim USians; he is actively trying to create an unsafe environment for them. This behavior should be absolutely intolerable to any society that espouses a belief in equality. No one is equal when serious threats against them are not taken seriously. This fucking guy. Our fucking priorities.
I won’t deny that Jones is being, to continue Melissa’s use of vulgarity, an asshole, but he is also engaged, as mentioned, in 1st Amendment Rights. People like McEwan should be really careful in how they position their view of the 1st, in this case calling it terrorism, because that is a near vertical drop covered in petroleum jelly. What’s good for the goose might just backfire on the gander.
Also, consider that she considers burning Korans a “threat”. Why would this be a “threat”, unless there are people who would get extraordinarily violent? Oh, and considering her views on men and other-than-Muslim religions, she’s one of the last people who should be discussing equality.
Teach,
One of the articles I read from a news station said the trailer Jones was pulling behind the truck did not have lights or a license. I think that was the cause of the initial stop.
Jones is an idiot, but his speech is protected. Even idiots have rights.
He also did not have the permit he needed for his use of a public park.
The Supremes have always limited the Fist Amendment including “fighting words” going back to the mid 1800s
The thrreat is that someone will take such offense to burning Korans that violence may take place. Jones is a liar ahole, just like Zimmerman is being exposed as.
Just remember your own words when someone on your side (not that Jones is on either of our sides) is in the same boat, John.
And I didn’t realize that one needed a permit to engage in First Amendment Rights.
Also, what you’re saying is that because, say, liberals here in Raleigh are doing their Moral Monday schtick and it might piss me off and I might pop one in the schnoz the Moral Monday crowd should be stopped? That’s a hell of an attitude towards Free Speech, John. I really do not think you understand what it means.
john,
You are so full of it that your ears leak raw sewage.
First, the doctrine of “fighting words” does no go back to the 1800’s but was first mentioned in the 1942 case Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, (315 U.S. 568 (1942).)
Jones’ burning of Korans is not directed at any particular individual and so it cannot be classifed as “fighting words.”
All you want to do is shut down speech that you disagree with.
Conservatives would never try and shut you up even though you are hateful, bigoted, prejudiced, frequently wrong and are an idiot.
As I said, even idiots have rights.
Also, if you just want to use a park, you don’t need a permit. If you want to use a park and you have lots of people, or you want to use one of the park pavillions and have a right to it, then you need to place a reservation. But, there is no “permit” to use a park. At least in the free parts of USA still.
Now, upon lighting up all those books, should he do it in one pile, then he could be arrested for a variety of things. If he was going to burn them a few at a time in a park charcoaler, then that is legal (unless the city has an ordinance that limits the fuel type to ONLY charcoal).
Also….. WHY did he have to travel across country to do his burning? If he has a church, why not do it on that church’s property? He was definitely show-boating.
I find it amazing that Terry Jones illicits greater hatred and threats (from govt officials) than do the wackos from Westboro Cult.
The permit was not for the use of the park but for an open fire in the park. Because of the potential for wild fires and fires getting put of control, many cities in Florida require a permit. The permit insures the safety of others as well as paying for the fire department to make sure the fire is extinguished and the remnents disposed of.
Everyone has a right to free speech, no matter how warped their view is. I admit, I do have mixed feelings about this. His Quran burning fiasco last time caused massive backlash against American forces deployed in the Middle East, and who knows how much worse it would’ve been had he been able to carry out his plan this time?
Oh come on, they don’t need any more justification to lash out at anyone not them. The latest Fatwa was over cartoons. How many times did we hear that we should “respect” their book or else… yet it was the prisoners at Guantanamo most often that did the disrespecting.
Remember the “backlash” when it was found that US forces had burned some of their books? The US even punished a few officers for that. Yet, an investigation showed it was the Iraqi cleaning crew that did it.
If we have to worry about treating these extremists with kid-gloves out of fear, then we have lost the war already.
Torching Corans is first amendment protected activity (has been since the USSC’s flag burning cases), but the government also has a legitimate interest in regulating the manner of how speech is exercised (that’s why bullhorns at midnight on your street are constitutionally forbidden). Since bonfires in a park are reasonably subject to safety and similar regulations that might need a permit, the fact that that loon didn’t have one makes this less regulation of speech content regulation than a time-place-manner restriction, a much less intrusive thing.
The nut was pulled over for a traffic violation, so if the cops saw another violation, like carrying fuel in an unsafe way, they’re within their rights to arrest him for that. So his arrest isn’t about restricting his first amendment rights.
The guy’s a moron. He could have applied for the permit, been denied, then challenged the denial, and he’d have a newsworthy case.
No such thing.
The constitution puts no abridgement upon free speech. It is only laws, later instituted, that infringe upon those rights. Founders didn’t feel the need to write such clauses in to the First Amendment because they had a higher sense of honor, dignity, morality than many do today. It would be unconscionable to even consider that someone would stand out in the middle of the night yelling about this or that during their time. Person would be run out of town or barred from attending certain establishments as punishment.
These days, you need these abridging laws because we have people who like to see society burn.
As I said, if he were to burn the books a few at a time in the park’s charcoalers, there would be no need for a permit. If he were to conduct his protest at his church, there would “probably” be no need for a burn permit (local laws dictate).
The fact that he is a moron who can’t even think to conduct his protest legally, get his trailer legally licensed, and don’t leave your gun out in the open (local laws dictate), shows me he deserved to be arrested out of sheer stupidity. yes – local laws dictate that as well
You should read up on first amendment theory, unless you can explain why you believe that child porn is protected first amendment speech or why you believe you can constitutionally use a bullhorn at midnight on a residential street.
“Unconscionable” is not “unconstitutional”. The latter is the only thing that matters. If being offensive to the point of being run out of town is your definition of what speech should not be allowed, then gods help us all.
Regulating bullhorns does not restrict speech content, it regulates when and how content can be expressed; running people out of town is mob violence.
Wirraway, think about what you’re saying: Jones was stopped from engaging in what is considered Constitutionally protected speech before he engaged in it, because he might do it in a park. And that he needed a permit to do this (maybe), but was stopped before he might have broken the law, and they do not even know if he was actually going to engage in breaking the law. The cops were simply looking for an excuse to stop him. Think they would do the same thing if he had been planning on burning US flags or Bibles?
What might Government decide to stop next?
William Teach, Jones was stopped because he was breaking laws: first, a traffic violation — he might have been speeding for all we know — a valid law enforcement action by the police. Then what we’re assuming happened is that the cops found that he violated some law about transporting fuel and finally a firearms violation. Those are the laws he broke and was arrested for. That’s based on incomplete facts, but as I read it, that’s what the story says. If the cops needed an excuse to stop him from burning Corans, then he set himself on fire, so to speak.
But let’s say he didn’t need a permit to burn trash, or had applied and received a burn trash permit. He still can’t speed, transfer fuel unsafely or violate local firearms laws. The fact that he wants to engage in C-protected speech doesn’t immunize him from being an inept lawbreaker before hand.
I’m glad to see anyone burn a Coran, but he had about 3,000 of them. If they weigh a half pound each, that’s like burning a horse. And they were soaked in fuel and he was carrying more fuel. There’s something beyond stupid here.
He is not a first amendment poster boy.
Unfortunately Teach, Law Enforcement at all levels do that. Its a sad state of our nation that they do. But, you see it all over the place most blatantly in “contempt of cop” syndrome. Those cops who suffer from this hate being seen as normal people. They see themselves as better, as higher authority, as more knowledgeable, and much better trained to protect you than you. Many suffer from GI JOE fever, as can be seen by the over-militarization of….. everything.
All cops do what you are hypothesizing above all the time. They don’t like the look of you, the look of your car, you “look” suspicious and they will FIND any reason to pull you over. Even if it means they make up something – “you were weaving” or “you did not come to a complete and full stop” or “you looked like you were speeding since you put your brakes on going in to the curve”.
Yes, I had that last one used against me to give me a speeding ticket. he had no idea how fast I was going, only saw my brake lights go on.
Until we learn to restrict the size, growth, and reach of our own elected government, we will continue to lose our liberties.
wow, you took that whole comment of mine way out of context and opposite to what was stated.
So, you believe that child porn was mentioned as an exclusion in the 1st Amdmt?
Then why are you arguing with me? So, you agree that unconscionable is not unconstitutional then. So, you made your own point moot.
You’re right, and that was my point. Thanks for agreeing.
to the point of what is allowed locally by the people? As the will of the majority? That’s how a democracy works locally. And you seem to be pushing that fact when you support the “permit”, “gun law”, “fuel transport” laws that were used to arrest said moron above. Those laws were passed by mob rule.
but then, you missed my point entirely.
So, you are ok with regulating and restricting movies, tv shows, where and when radio shows can operate? Are you ok where and when people can use cell phones? Where they can read and write books and articles? Are you for regulating bloggers like the democrats wanted to do recently?
Sure sounds like you are.
Who are you to judge who is a good example of why we have a 1st amendment to freedom of speech? have we not been told by liberals for decades that the most vile most despicable of actions are the REAL reason why we have 1st Amdmt?
He faces charges of unlawfully transporting fuel and openly carrying a firearm.
Said moron is a danger to the community for sure. driving around with books soaked in kerosene? in the trailer? And how do you drive a truck pulling a smoker pulling a trailer?
I’m guessing he was going to use the smoker to burn the books. Don’t need a permit to use your own smoker (granted, FL local laws may be more inane)
And where else are you going to carry your jugs of kerosene? Most states require that you carry them in the back of a vehicle, preferably in the open bed of a truck.
i’d like to know more of how this stop went down. All of it seems odd and way too dumb to have occurred.
Gumball,
It appears from the sources I have in LEO-dom that Jones had originally wanted an open fire / pit fire. That permit was denied so he brought the Korans in the smoker which would have been legal to ignite.
Jones was stopped for the trailer on which he was carrying the grill had no lights or license plates.
I think the original stop was legit.
Kerosene like all flammable fuels must be carried in approved containers. Jonrs had the fuel in glass bottles and milk cartons. The containers were in plain sight. I think that part was legal as well.
I thought Jones had a CCW or open carry permit for the gun, but that may have been revoked. If it was, that troubles me on many levels.
I don’t think the police stopped Jones because of who he is and what he planned on doing, but because of vehicle violations.
I think that some people want to turn this stop into a First Amendment issue, but I don’t think that is the case. That doesn’t mean Jones is not the poster boy for the First Amendment as any time you have the President, the then Secretary of State, and a military general looking to intimidate you in not speaking, that is exactly the type of pressure the epitomizes the need for the First Amendment. I just don’t think this stop was First Amendment related.
As for wirraway’s assertion that a bullhorn at midnight is “unConstitutional,” he could not be more wrong. As a society we balance the rights of people all the time when rights clash. Time, place and manner restrictions do not mean the speech is unConstitutional, but rather limited restrictions serve a purpose of balancing rights within the society.
As always GC. Thanks.
If the Kerosene was in glass or milk bottles, then don’t think that was legal.
I think we all can agree that the stop, if based on the trailer issues first, was completely legit. The REASON for stopping the trailer may be suspect. I think Teach, and a bit of myself, might be suggesting that the cops were on the lookout for Jones and looking for a means to arrest him. remember, they had previously threatened him with arrest and jail. So, with their own statements, I’m taking the line that they were on the lookout for him.
I say it again, local laws dictate, what size of trailer gets tagged. I’ve owned a number of trailers, that could fit a large smoker easily, that did not need to be tagged. And they were skinny enough to not need lights.
He was openly carrying a firearm while in a vehicle? How does that work? Does florida have permits for open carry as well as concealed carry? (general blog questions)
Gumball,
In Florida, if it is not a farm trailer, a trailer has to have a license and lights.
A Florida CCW permit allows the person to open carry in “non-public” places and to conceal carry in all others ecept for those restricted by law (schools, airports, governent buildings, etc.)
If Jones had a CCW permit, when he got out of his truck he could be carrying openly.
I really thought that after the threats he had received he had a CCW permit but I guess I was wrong. (The wife of the man arrested with Jones said both men (Jones and her husband) have valid CCW permits.)
We’ll never know if the police were looking for Jones or not.
However, there are some issues to consider that may or may not support the contention that the police were looking for him. There are also issues that show he’s an idiot.
Consider the fact that as the permit was denied, why wouldn’t Jones make sure everything was legal? He was travelling 150 miles to burn Qurans. Why draw attention to yourself by not having the trailer be legal?
Smokers on trailers in Florida are as common as retired people with white hair. Smokers on trailers on McDonalds parking lots are very common. (The stop occured as the truck and trailer were leaving a McDonalds. ) Did a cop see the trailer without a license? Or were the cops looking for Jones and his sheep peeps?
But here’s another thing to consider…..
If Jones burns a bunch of Qurans, we all say “meh. Moron.”
But burning Qurans AND a First Amendment isdue will fire up the right leaning populace.
What if Jones removed the lights and license from the trailer while at McDonalds and then called the police? The media was on this VERY quickly. How do you travel 150 miles, not get caught for an illegal trailer, and then in the middle of the media, get pulled over coming out of a McDonalds? Why not have proceeded to the park without stopping? Why pour the kerosene on the books and travel with it?
“Look at me! I’m driving for 3 hours pulling a bomb behind me!”
I disagree with Jones and think that like the buttwipes from Westboro Baptist Church, he is a media whore.
I really wonder if he set the thing up to get arrested.
Very good points. I’ve too wondered that. Whole thing stinks to me.
If he was hauling kerosene-soaked flammable material along with extra kerosene in glass bottles, “in an illegal” manner ….. one could make an argument that he WAS hauling a bomb, bomb supplies, and his stop was very fortunate.
Can someone be THAT stupid?
How do you figure that? I guess the assumption is that he DID get out of his truck with his gun, and he got out with his gun in his hand or displayed? IF he did in fact have a CCW and had it under his shirt, then he would be still legal EVEN IF he got out of the truck with the gun.
Why would he get out of the truck? Was he going to be arrested before they found the gun?
As most CCW people know, you tell the cops first thing that you are a CCW holder and you are currently carrying or have your gun in the vehicle. If that was done (doubtful since this Jones is stupid as F*CK!!), then he could not be charged for open carry in public as he was under arrest at the time.
But, if he did in fact have his CCW permit denied (why? one wonders), then him having a gun at all would still be legal right? CCW just allows you to carry concealed. As long as the gun stayed in the truck, the gun is not being displayed in public. If he had the gun on him, and failed to tell the cop, and then stepped out of the truck with the gun,… then he would be openly carrying said gun.
DAMN. lots of ifs still abound and lots of STUPID can only explain it.
Gumball, you’re carrying water for an idiot. The traffic stop was apparently legal, for whatever reason he was carrying fuel in an unsafe manner and was carrying a gun without a concealed carry permit.
He wasn’t stopped because of his first amendment rights — burning corans isn’t a cutting edge first amendment issue — but because he’s a petty criminal too stupid to get out of his own way.
where in my statements have I fully defended Jones and all his actions?
If he was carrying kerosene in glass containers, then no one will dispute that.
local laws dictate, but don’t need a CCW to carry and\or transport a gun. If he was just transporting, then no CCW or OCW permit needed. If it was on his person and he stepped out of vehicle without informing police, and he didnt have a CCW or OCW, then yeah he would be in violation. AGain, no one disputes these issues.
Again, who are you to decide what is permissible?
I’m not sure why but this website is loading very slow for me.
Is anyone else having this issue or is it a
issue on my end? I’ll check back later and see if the problem still exists.