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	<title>Comments on: Shocka: 2003 Memo Approved Of Harsh Interrogation Methods For Jihadis</title>
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	<link>http://www.thepiratescove.us/2008/04/02/shocka-2003-memo-approved-of-harsh-interrogation-methods-for-jihadis/</link>
	<description>Free societies are societies in which the right of dissent is protected</description>
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		<title>By: darthcrUSAderworldtour2007</title>
		<link>http://www.thepiratescove.us/2008/04/02/shocka-2003-memo-approved-of-harsh-interrogation-methods-for-jihadis/comment-page-1/#comment-115845</link>
		<dc:creator>darthcrUSAderworldtour2007</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 06:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepiratescove.us/?p=5440#comment-115845</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s PC to kill US Navy SEALS on Ruby Ridge in Afghanistan in 2002 and castrate them and stuff their gonads into their throat, eh? Back to waterboarding mateys...
That&#039;s right, the US Pentagon didn&#039;t want you to know about these gruesome combat deaths...It would infuriate public opinion and retaliation against Muslims? So much for our First Amendment Blackbeard!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s PC to kill US Navy SEALS on Ruby Ridge in Afghanistan in 2002 and castrate them and stuff their gonads into their throat, eh? Back to waterboarding mateys&#8230;<br />
That&#8217;s right, the US Pentagon didn&#8217;t want you to know about these gruesome combat deaths&#8230;It would infuriate public opinion and retaliation against Muslims? So much for our First Amendment Blackbeard!</p>
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		<title>By: darthcrUSAderworldtour2007</title>
		<link>http://www.thepiratescove.us/2008/04/02/shocka-2003-memo-approved-of-harsh-interrogation-methods-for-jihadis/comment-page-1/#comment-115815</link>
		<dc:creator>darthcrUSAderworldtour2007</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 10:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepiratescove.us/?p=5440#comment-115815</guid>
		<description>Comrade Ryan, just waterboard islamofascist butchers and then go to confession and say, &quot;Bless me father for I have waterboarded again...&quot;  Padre will reply, &quot; You are forgiven AGAIN my son and go back and do it some more. I don&#039;t want my Vatican to become a mosque!&quot; 
That&#039;s right, when we were flying in the unfriendly skies Comrade Ryan was in Afghanistan... I had forgotten.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comrade Ryan, just waterboard islamofascist butchers and then go to confession and say, &#8220;Bless me father for I have waterboarded again&#8230;&#8221;  Padre will reply, &#8221; You are forgiven AGAIN my son and go back and do it some more. I don&#8217;t want my Vatican to become a mosque!&#8221;<br />
That&#8217;s right, when we were flying in the unfriendly skies Comrade Ryan was in Afghanistan&#8230; I had forgotten.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve J.</title>
		<link>http://www.thepiratescove.us/2008/04/02/shocka-2003-memo-approved-of-harsh-interrogation-methods-for-jihadis/comment-page-1/#comment-115812</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 06:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepiratescove.us/?p=5440#comment-115812</guid>
		<description>The use of torture is against U.S. law, period.

in 2340A, the law applies to ANY American:

(b) Jurisdiction.— There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection (a) if—
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged offender.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The use of torture is against U.S. law, period.</p>
<p>in 2340A, the law applies to ANY American:</p>
<p>(b) Jurisdiction.— There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection (a) if—<br />
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or<br />
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged offender.</p>
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		<title>By: Silke</title>
		<link>http://www.thepiratescove.us/2008/04/02/shocka-2003-memo-approved-of-harsh-interrogation-methods-for-jihadis/comment-page-1/#comment-115811</link>
		<dc:creator>Silke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepiratescove.us/?p=5440#comment-115811</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Teach said: To close it out, I’ll ask yet again the question I always ask of liberals: how exactly are we to get intelligence from these terrorists quickly?&lt;/b&gt; 

I’m not a liberal but I’ll give it a shot…

This is what the Army uses: FM 2-22.3 Human Intelligence Collector Operations.  Chapter 8 describes the different approach techniques.  Having served with professional interrogators in the U.S. Army I can tell you these soldiers are incredibly good at their job and the different approaches they use are very effective.  The most useful information (especially with respect to force protection and enemy plans) is usually gathered within hours of the detainee’s capture, so the military is very skilled at gathering time-sensitive information.

http://www.army.mil/institution/armypublicaffairs/pdf/fm2-22-3.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Teach said: To close it out, I’ll ask yet again the question I always ask of liberals: how exactly are we to get intelligence from these terrorists quickly?</b> </p>
<p>I’m not a liberal but I’ll give it a shot…</p>
<p>This is what the Army uses: FM 2-22.3 Human Intelligence Collector Operations.  Chapter 8 describes the different approach techniques.  Having served with professional interrogators in the U.S. Army I can tell you these soldiers are incredibly good at their job and the different approaches they use are very effective.  The most useful information (especially with respect to force protection and enemy plans) is usually gathered within hours of the detainee’s capture, so the military is very skilled at gathering time-sensitive information.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.army.mil/institution/armypublicaffairs/pdf/fm2-22-3.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.army.mil/institution/armypublicaffairs/pdf/fm2-22-3.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: American Street &#187; Blog Archive &#187; On the Torture Memo: I hear crickets from American conservatives</title>
		<link>http://www.thepiratescove.us/2008/04/02/shocka-2003-memo-approved-of-harsh-interrogation-methods-for-jihadis/comment-page-1/#comment-115808</link>
		<dc:creator>American Street &#187; Blog Archive &#187; On the Torture Memo: I hear crickets from American conservatives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 23:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepiratescove.us/?p=5440#comment-115808</guid>
		<description>[...] conservatives are slim. Credit goes to Pirate&#8217;s Cove for being the first to cover it, and the coverage was fully pro-torture. Michael Goldfarb of The Weakly Standard gave it an &#8216;afterthought&#8217; tone, like it was an [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] conservatives are slim. Credit goes to Pirate&#8217;s Cove for being the first to cover it, and the coverage was fully pro-torture. Michael Goldfarb of The Weakly Standard gave it an &#8216;afterthought&#8217; tone, like it was an [...]</p>
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		<title>By: William Teach</title>
		<link>http://www.thepiratescove.us/2008/04/02/shocka-2003-memo-approved-of-harsh-interrogation-methods-for-jihadis/comment-page-1/#comment-115807</link>
		<dc:creator>William Teach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 23:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepiratescove.us/?p=5440#comment-115807</guid>
		<description>I will agree that actual torture is wrong, and does not work, but, what was done was not really bad, and was not torture. No one was actually harmed, except a bit mentally.

What was done at AG was disgusting, unnecessary, and against military law.

There were actual beheadings and roadside bombs in Afghanistan, as well as even prior to 9/11.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will agree that actual torture is wrong, and does not work, but, what was done was not really bad, and was not torture. No one was actually harmed, except a bit mentally.</p>
<p>What was done at AG was disgusting, unnecessary, and against military law.</p>
<p>There were actual beheadings and roadside bombs in Afghanistan, as well as even prior to 9/11.</p>
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		<title>By: John Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.thepiratescove.us/2008/04/02/shocka-2003-memo-approved-of-harsh-interrogation-methods-for-jihadis/comment-page-1/#comment-115802</link>
		<dc:creator>John Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepiratescove.us/?p=5440#comment-115802</guid>
		<description>Torture is only effective at producing confessions.
Probably the best srgument that could be made for torture was  when it was used  to suppress the Satanic witchcraft that was sweeping across Europe. Through torture witches  would not only confess they would also identify their fellow witches including the most difficult to find &quot;sleeper witches&quot;
Torture is never &quot;OK&quot; 
If some agent feels that torture is in fact the only method  that will work and save 1000s of lives than let him do it, and then be prosecuted for it. The 5 or 10 nyears he spends in jail will be well worth the lives saved and of course  it will cut down  on the amount od &quot;unnecessary&quot; torture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Torture is only effective at producing confessions.<br />
Probably the best srgument that could be made for torture was  when it was used  to suppress the Satanic witchcraft that was sweeping across Europe. Through torture witches  would not only confess they would also identify their fellow witches including the most difficult to find &#8220;sleeper witches&#8221;<br />
Torture is never &#8220;OK&#8221;<br />
If some agent feels that torture is in fact the only method  that will work and save 1000s of lives than let him do it, and then be prosecuted for it. The 5 or 10 nyears he spends in jail will be well worth the lives saved and of course  it will cut down  on the amount od &#8220;unnecessary&#8221; torture.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Hayden</title>
		<link>http://www.thepiratescove.us/2008/04/02/shocka-2003-memo-approved-of-harsh-interrogation-methods-for-jihadis/comment-page-1/#comment-115797</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Hayden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepiratescove.us/?p=5440#comment-115797</guid>
		<description>Thank you. You&#039;re the first conservative blogger - per Memeorandum - to even say a word about Yoo&#039;s memo.

However, to answer your question, please note that the memo was written on March 14th, 2003, which was less than a week before the Iraq War was started. So the answer to your question is there had been no beheadings and roadside bombs at that time. And ultimately, in regards to Iraq, they flew no planes into buildings. The 2-3 US troop or contractor  beheadings that came later began after the Abu Ghraib tapes went public so they were apparently reacting to our torture, not the other way around.

In Afghanistan, the memo was written months after the fighting had pretty much ceased and the Taliban was in hiding. Using the memo against those already held from that conflict grants your argument some consideration. Yet as we&#039;ve subsequently seen, several hundred of those folks would ultimately be released as non-terrorists or no threat to our country. So while they were in years of detention, did they earn torture? 

Again, the Taliban sheltered Al Qaida, but the training occurred in Pakistan, the funding and 9-11 hijackers camemostly from Saudi Arabia (where the government beheads) or the Middle East.

Talibanis weren&#039;t in on 9-11, hadn&#039;t been roadside bombing us and weren&#039;t beheading us. Nor were Afghanis.

Finally, countless interrogation efforts have spoken about the ineffectiveness of torture in gaining info. And to this day, we haven&#039;t heard how much actionable intelligence was obtained through normal interrogation methods.

So besides being cruel, unecessary and ineffective, the sole motive for torture is revenge. Except we were detaining many who had no part in the conflict, nor the atrocities you mention.

For use against Al Qaida&#039;s leadership is all that really merits consideration. But there, no official approval was necessary. Just let the Special Forces necessary to capture or kill them do their job. And if any acted vengefully against that group, I doubt they&#039;d ever face trial or be convicted.

The legal cover provide was unnecessary, ineffective and stupid, as it exposed the White House staff to legal action, and for what?

The revelation of torture at Abu Ghraib didn&#039;t protect troops from prosecution and it provoked terror recruitment and brutality and an escalation of the Iraq insurgency. That&#039;s a pretty high cost for the minimal, fleeting moments of revenge. And since it occurred in Iraq, revenge for what? For them fighting back after we attacked?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you. You&#8217;re the first conservative blogger &#8211; per Memeorandum &#8211; to even say a word about Yoo&#8217;s memo.</p>
<p>However, to answer your question, please note that the memo was written on March 14th, 2003, which was less than a week before the Iraq War was started. So the answer to your question is there had been no beheadings and roadside bombs at that time. And ultimately, in regards to Iraq, they flew no planes into buildings. The 2-3 US troop or contractor  beheadings that came later began after the Abu Ghraib tapes went public so they were apparently reacting to our torture, not the other way around.</p>
<p>In Afghanistan, the memo was written months after the fighting had pretty much ceased and the Taliban was in hiding. Using the memo against those already held from that conflict grants your argument some consideration. Yet as we&#8217;ve subsequently seen, several hundred of those folks would ultimately be released as non-terrorists or no threat to our country. So while they were in years of detention, did they earn torture? </p>
<p>Again, the Taliban sheltered Al Qaida, but the training occurred in Pakistan, the funding and 9-11 hijackers camemostly from Saudi Arabia (where the government beheads) or the Middle East.</p>
<p>Talibanis weren&#8217;t in on 9-11, hadn&#8217;t been roadside bombing us and weren&#8217;t beheading us. Nor were Afghanis.</p>
<p>Finally, countless interrogation efforts have spoken about the ineffectiveness of torture in gaining info. And to this day, we haven&#8217;t heard how much actionable intelligence was obtained through normal interrogation methods.</p>
<p>So besides being cruel, unecessary and ineffective, the sole motive for torture is revenge. Except we were detaining many who had no part in the conflict, nor the atrocities you mention.</p>
<p>For use against Al Qaida&#8217;s leadership is all that really merits consideration. But there, no official approval was necessary. Just let the Special Forces necessary to capture or kill them do their job. And if any acted vengefully against that group, I doubt they&#8217;d ever face trial or be convicted.</p>
<p>The legal cover provide was unnecessary, ineffective and stupid, as it exposed the White House staff to legal action, and for what?</p>
<p>The revelation of torture at Abu Ghraib didn&#8217;t protect troops from prosecution and it provoked terror recruitment and brutality and an escalation of the Iraq insurgency. That&#8217;s a pretty high cost for the minimal, fleeting moments of revenge. And since it occurred in Iraq, revenge for what? For them fighting back after we attacked?</p>
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