Teach, why aren’t you asking Stacy for proof of ID?

I am keeping an open mind and am trying to understand your perspective – but I do agree with you that there are some out there (from both sides of the debate) who believe what they believe regardless of the evidence. I am not an atheist. Unfortunately this has become a theological (rather than a scientific) discussion. I know you said you do not intend to comment any further but I would be very interested in hearing why you think God could not be the guiding force behind evolution?

Thanks.

Every atheist I have ever had this conversation with cannot rest unless they have the last word and affirm to themselves through that last word that they must indeed be right. They simply cannot except the fact that there are people out there who refuse to believe their theory. People who believe in something greater than themselves. People who also think with their hearts. I’ve seen enough miracles, I’ve seen enough of God working in peoples’ lives to believe. That’s why it’s called “faith”.

I’m out of here.

Stacy said: The reference to energy is simple. Where did the initial energy come from?

The earth is not a closed system. The energy could have come from the sun, an asteroid, etc. Keep in mind too that evolution does not describe how life started (that is a separate field in biology called abiogenesis), it describes what happened once life began.

Stacy said: To live life with no eternal hope is very, very sad.

I agree. But what does that have to do with what we are discussing? Again, couldn’t the theory of evolution be the answer to how – not who? I brought this up earlier but you never addressed it.

“…In our own solar system and on earth (formed about 4.5 billion years ago), the conditions have been favorable to the emergence of life. While there is little consensus among scientists about how the origin of this first microscopic life is to be explained, there is general agreement among them that the first organism dwelt on this planet about 3.5-4 billion years ago. Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution. While the story of human origins is complex and subject to revision, physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage.”

Incidentally, this passage is from the International Theological Commission on Communion and Stewardship, July 23rd 2004 (Chapter 3, Section 1. Science and the stewardship of knowledge, paragraph 63).

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20040723_communion-stewardship_en.html

“Let’s be clear. Intelligent design may be interesting as theology, but as science it is a fraud.”

The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection. So when you say, “that actually sounds like Intelligent Design” you are equating two very different things.

A better term for what you are describing is theistic evolution which holds that God directs and guides the unfolding of life forms over millions of years through evolution. Of course this is more a philosophical view than a scientific one since God is outside of science. The point is, faith and evolution are not mutually exclusive.